Re: Temporarily disabling an enemy Squad Beacon

**Ferris Bueller** · 04-08-2007, 08:37 PM

Jaykay summed it up perfectly: the definition of an exploit around here is utilizing any game mechanic in a way that its not intended to be used for any sort of advantage.

Some of these exploits are overlooked because they cant be helped and EVERYONE uses them (i.e. people's feet sticking out while in the prone position) and theyre relatively harmless and dont give any kind of real unfair advantage. Others, such as the one suggested by this thread, give a huge unfair advantage in both time and available manpower to the squad and team it's being used by. In my book that constitutes breaking the rules simply because you're both utilizing a non-intended function AND you're doing it knowing full well it's going to give you at least a temporary advantage. It takes just as long to destroy the spawn beacon as it does to drop a medbox on it and its not an exploit.

I dont know how exactly the admin staff feels on this one (commentary plz) but if I see anyone exploiting this little bug, I will be reporting it.

**Fehmart** · 04-08-2007, 09:09 PM

I find it ironic that you take issue with blocking a beacon when you also speak of vehicle ramming. SLs assume the risk of all sorts of crap when they put out a beacon. You don't have to throw a hub onto it, either. A person standing on it could also block the clear line of sight with the sky.

In any event, I have yet to see this be a serious issue, so I don't know what the fuss is all about.

**Ferris Bueller** · 04-08-2007, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fehmart

I find it ironic that you take issue with blocking a beacon when you also speak of vehicle ramming. SLs assume the risk of all sorts of crap when they put out a beacon. You don't have to throw a hub onto it, either. A person standing on it could also block the clear line of sight with the sky.

In any event, I have yet to see this be a serious issue, so I don't know what the fuss is all about.

Yep, I use vehicle ramming as a valid tactic in certain scenarios. My case is an example. Its not an exploit. Its not a suicide run. I cant do it on a constant basis because the attack helos take so long to spawn and therefore dont. Its also a very hard maneuver to pull off as you have to hit in a very small area climbing at dead vertical in a very non-precision maneuvering aircraft.

Vehicles take damage. The amount of damage taken is determined by the object of impact, speed, point of impact, etc. The nose of a transport isnt a weak point. The underbelly of an attack helo is, both done by design (similar to the vents on the underside of the walker being the weak spot). High velocity contact between the two points allows for the attack helo to go down and the transport to get away with major damage. However, seeing as the transport helo has no offensive capabilities if you're flying solo, its an improvisation to compensate.

My tactic does not prevent players from spawning, doesnt utilize any game mechanics in a fashion not congruent with the way the game is designed, and can be avoided easily by a pilot who is alert to his environment. The only reason it works in the first place is because the pilots in the scenario I outlined in the other thread are too busy trying to take out the titan-to-ground guns. It would be nearly impossible to pull off in any other case.

In addition, find me someone who is going to manage to lay on a beacon for long enough to cause a problem. SL's try to place beacons in places that the beacon is gonna stick around for a while. Putting a player on top of it makes the player a huge target and he'll probably be dead fairly quickly. Nobody goes around shooting medhubs. It could sit there for quite some time unchecked. Plus, as stated, its just as fast to destroy it and it doesnt violate the proper use of game mechanics.

**Ferris Bueller** · 04-09-2007, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bommando

There is no scenario where ramming is OK on a TG server. It's against the rules.

And we dont play titan maps, so its not really an issue. Even if we did, I really wouldnt care about not getting to perform the maneuver since, as I said, its a tactic I reserve for rare occasion and doesnt get pulled out often for a number of reasons (thus it wouldnt be missed when removed from my arsenal of tactics).

Regardless of the rules allowing the particular tactic or not, it falls within the definition of "tactic" and not "exploit" as opposed to the subject of this thread, which was the main point of my previous rant. Simply expanding on Fehmart's comment on the fact that I defend vehicle ramming as a tactic as opposed to medhub blocking. One is and one isnt. Simple as that.

In addition, just as a suggestion, if ramming with vehicles really is illegal, you may want to amend the rules to be clear on that:
The current rules (the only place mentioning ramming in the BF2142 Rules):

Originally Posted by asch

7) Suicide tactics are FORBIDDEN.

This includes suicide C4 Jeeps, ramming any vehicle and intentionally blowing yourself up to cause the death of another.

This saying that you have to ram and die simultaneously. My tactic involves the pilot of the transport survivng the trip every time with exactly 22% health left on the bird. Just trying to be clear so we can avoid incident because nowhere else is ramming mentioned, and with vehicles its often an unplanned occurrence anyway.

**Ferris Bueller** · 04-09-2007, 04:07 AM

Poste deleted. I changed my mind and did it now.

**Zoopy** · 04-09-2007, 01:59 PM

I guess Ferris missed this in the TG Primer:

Originally Posted by TG Primer

3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

**HBrutusH** · 07-10-2007, 12:41 PM

..rendered unusable if you lie on them!!

as if they were under a building, it works if you're a dead body too.
in theory you could try dropping an ammo box/medic hub on them too?

Just found it out when me and Durge were messing around on the TG server when it was empty.

Oh yeah, and we also found out what your guy does with certain commo rose messages.

I need a medic/supplies/ a lift: waves (hiya!)
enemy spotted/attack/move to/ defend this position: points
I need backup (maybe assets too?): touches earpiece.
No can do: slices his throat with his hand in a 'prepare to die' kind of way.
Sorry: Shrugs.

needless to say that was much of the fun times

there you go, a completely useless (except for the beacon thing) list of things to entangle your senses

**Incurable** · 07-10-2007, 12:59 PM

Nice find! And yes, dropping a crate on a beacon renders it useless.

**HBrutusH** · 07-10-2007, 02:42 PM

for a moment there I was wondering where my post went when it was moved

hehe, then the ping finally caught up

in theory parking a buggy over the beacon could work too.
(or, better yet, a goliath, but that's just overkill)

**Anospa** · 07-10-2007, 03:23 PM

Recon decoy went through a beacon I dropped it on. Gonna check that out again later.

**Zhohar** · 07-10-2007, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Aerosecurity

That sounds a little heartless. Sure it may seem like a good idea if you're losing by a bunch of points, but to me, it seems like I wouldn't want that to happen to me, so I wont do it to them.

Call me crazy, but I like to show my skills face to face with my enemy, not by thinking of cheap ways to earn points or gain an unfair advantage. (and trust me, in 1v1, you're going down)

It's not cheap. If you're the one podding down, you will feel like it's a cheap kill for them - a lot like spawn camping - but it isn't their fault at all. Your SL is at fault here. No one forced him to place the beacon there -- and you'll note now that the game's UCB spawns are unmovable -- he chose to place it there because he thought it would give him a tactical advantage. If he chooses to run off without defending it, it is a perfectly legal tactic to wait for people podding down and shoot them before they have a chance to blink.
This is learning by fire.

Think about it - the only way this "place RDX around beacon and wait" trick would work is if the SL doesn't defend his beacon. A squad leader's job is to protect the spawn beacon and the area around it.
Either you place it in a highly secure spot, or you defend it.

Back to the initial point though -- dropping the med/supply hub over the beacon to disable it temporarily -- it's a cute trick but it has no real tactical advantage. It's better to just blow up the beacon.
Scenario 1. Disable beacon, place RDX, blow up medhub, wait, kill 6 (pfft, more like 1) people. Excellent, but you'll blow up the beacon as well, so this isn't anything worth noting. The time you'll waste doing this is probably larger than what you would offset their team if you'd simply destroyed the beacon and moved on.
Scenario 2. Disable beacon, wait. The other team doesn't have a beacon, but they can all just leave the squad, form another one and all is fine for them.
Scenario 3. Disable beacon, wait, leave. Med hub blows up, 6 people behind your lines. Unless your CO is damned quick on his feet, there goes the game.

Like I said - it's cute but useless. Either blow it up, or if it's safe behind your lines, get the entire squad and wait for them as they pod down. Take them out and you know they can't be revived and their team loses tickets.
But if you're alone, four of them could pod in and kill you before you have a chance to reload after killing the first two.

**NecktieRemedy** · 07-11-2007, 01:55 AM

I don't see how these things are "exploits" if they allow it to happen in game...
(not conserning any of TG's rules and what-not, just the med/supply kit one)

Could you temporarely disable a beacon with an emp grenade? or any other EMP for that matter?

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