Lyramion

A Sniper actually moving with a Squad and not going idle on Mono can do quite some harm. I like the Lambert but vs Assaults you usually lose 1v1.

Id like to try some "Squadsniper" more but once I have to change kits to revive my SL and Squadmates it means one of the Squadmembers is stuck with a weapon he really didnt intend on using at all.

[TG] IronClaw

Hi

I think that snipers only belong in their own squad and a small one at that.
the best use of a sniper is to let them (good ones)give general orders as well as if possible a secondary task such as defending a flag with apm/rdx or slowing an advance using all of your weapons.
A good three man sniper team can be a real force multiplier but the CO has to let them roam.

Sparkle

Guardianx11x

Ok, this topic is begging for an example of helpful squad play. I realize this example pertains to a fairly unique situation, but I felt I was quite helpful in achieving squad goals.

This was a game at Bridge at Remagen, Lyramion occupied himself why expertly flying around himself and the rest of my squad in an air transport. (he posted about this experience...look for "fly forest fly"). Anyway, being the helpful buddy I am, I didn’t fly with him…I found a nice spot where I could watch 2-3 AA guns, and wouldn’t be bothered by infantry. And set to work for about the entire game. If I remember correctly I ended up with a standard 20ish kills, but what sticks out is that more than half of those where people manning an AA gun. I’m not saying one of these people would have shot Lyra down, but at least it kept some annoying ringing out of his ears so he could fly a little nicer.

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-Spartan`II7^

Hm, good point lol... I always knew that you aren't of great use if you stay in the woods killing ppl at random but I never looked at it that way. However, even in those situations, rifle rockets usually make short work of those annoying targets as well and what's even better, they aren't stopped by cover unlike bullets from a sniper rifle...

Snipers would be 100 times as useful as they are now if headshots from thir rifles actually were instant unrevivable deaths :/

I'm not exactly obsessed with the sniper kit/rifle but I'm trying to find a way to use them to a squads advantage that is worthy of being a medic/support short...

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KnifeHeavy

Spartan look at the threads referrenced - because both of the threads are similar - they both started as something different but ended up at the same destination - how can the recon/sniper kit be useful to a squad - I feel all of the kits are pretty balanced and like cogs they all have a time and place.

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Karnstein

Hi fellow (trial^^)clanmate... I don't think that I had commented on the linked two topics, but I'm sure that I read them.

As it was mentioned before a recon truely can be an asset to a squad but it looses compared to what the other classes can accomplish.

Basically a recon can:

1. Snipe enemy players, but that comes at the price of largely decreased cqc ability and it is nothing a good assault player can accomplish with a SS baur or PK rockets.

2. bring his netbat along, but with a otus drone drone you won't really need that because it scans every 5 sec and we also have the dystek meter and the new IPS to detect and track enemy players

3. with camo+rdx he has the chance to destroy vehicles, but that is a job a good SL can accomplish by either requesting an emp+o-strike combo or either requesting a kit switch or even demand at the beginning of the round that s.o plays and engi. And with the new IPS and the old support netbat I would rate an engi as fare more effective against every kind of armor than an rdx-recon.

So the only thing a recon does is to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" class which is fine for a bad managed squad or lonewolfing but I always would prefer a 3-4 assault, 1 engi + 1-2 support squad over one which changes the engi in fav of a recon.

Recon surely isn't a bad class but it is the one which tends to allure lone wolf players or those who are overconfident in their sniping skills or the effect their sniping has on the battlefield. So recon is a class most squadleading people don't associate with good teamwork, which sadly holds true with most recon players.

Beside that most squads (just watchs arghs 4 blitzkrieg video) tend to move forward in a rather fast pace, because they wont be slowed down by apms and that mean a sniper in a squad will find itself either engaged in cqc or close to midrange battles more than often unless he breaks away from the squad coherency, which is frowned upon by SLs and tends to result in either ticket lost or unnecessary squad fragmentation. The other option would be to go lambert. But unless everybody else has none of the engi unlocks, so that the squad really needs s.o with rdx, a lambert recon is a mediocre assault player without a proper gun, a med hub and the ability to rezz other players.

EDIT:

So unless dice makes sniper HS instant death and not crit wounded there is no reason for playing sniper in a squad in 9/10 times, because any good enemy squad will reanimate fallen players faster than you can snipe them and apm clearing with the zeller isn't that needed when 4 out of 6 players are med-whores like our SP-SR/SM/SL fellows

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There is thought and there is action. Do not confuse the two. When the time comes to act, your thought must already be complete. There will be no room for it when the action begins.
Quellcrist Falconer.

Lorax74

Thank you...

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TG-9th Lorax74

DrunkenCommando

A couple rules of thumb on Snipe+Squad...
1) Never more than 1 sniper.
2) Must stick close so they can pick up an Assault kit if necessary.
3) The sniper must be either very good, or be SL.
4) If the 'sniper' is using the lambert, they should spot as many enemies as possible (Fade Delay) and take advantage of cloaking so they can flank the enemy; killing them, or at least being a distraction so the rest of the squad can get away.
5) Best employed when camping
6) The Zeller is more helpfull for squad play (removing mines).

Urit

Honestly, if I see a guy spawn with a sniper rifle in my squads, unless it's a VERY specific instance, I'll tell him to please spawn with something else next time he dies. They're utterly useless at close range. Sure, maybe some people can kneel and pop off quick headshots, but it's very akin to whipping your knife out and charging headon at a guy with a voss.

The only time that they DO help is when you're defending an open flag. For example, Monorail on Belgrade, Square on Berlin, Warehouses on Sidi, or Toll on Camp Gibraltar. A Lambert user shouldn't lose that much to assaults one on one, the Lambert chews through people so fast it's funny. Even Vosshats fall if you're decent at aiming. Just have to remember that it has almost no recoil and you can kill 3 people in 1 clip if you're lucky (have done!).

Guardianx11x

And remember kids, the motion supression add-on works with the lambert as well. So you don't need to dick around with crouching and what not to deal with people, just hit the shift-key and you can unload an entire clip in a very small area with very little correction.

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Urit

Yeah, though the Scope stabilizer doesn't help with recoil. Just the starting scope drift. I tested it.

Also, you'll usually have RDX + camo or something along those lines, as I take recons for both the Otus-mapping capability AND the fact that on vehicle-light maps, they are a superb, more useful replacement for engineers. Cloak + RDX = Walker-b-gone.

Guardianx11x

No, you're right...I meant the random variability associated with firing standing shots as opposed to crouching or prone. Sorry if I was unclear.

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thedogwarrior

I think it's more the urge to show off perceived "skill" at taking someone down with (possibly) 1 shot, esp. for the pubbies or newbies in the game.

The regular person just starting out, with either assault or supply kit, sees an enemy, and just starts shooting wildly, constantly, until the clip is empty. What? All those shots, and the guy STILL isn't dead?

But the recon kit, with a 1- or 2-shot kill, *plus* the feeling of getting some guy when he least expects it, from a position of perceived relative far-off safety... I think that's the draw.

Razcsak

And in my case at least, it came from the demo. Since there are no defibs (or unlocks at all), all recon act as snipers, and can be very effective at rapidly taking down tickets. When I bought the full game, it took me a bit to notice that I actually wasn't doing anything, whereupon I switched to assault as my default class.

One thing recon is occasionally good for is rapidly taking down Goliath panels. Its very possible, if you are careful, to get right up next to the Goliath and run along it, especially on many areas in Bavaria. Since the body itself will shield you from the blast, you can live to run alongside the Goliath and kill (at least for a bit) the spawners who jump out. While a well-coordinated Goliath crew will probably spot and kill you, iits occasionally worth the risk.

Again, though, that is the role of the Special Ops branch of recon, not the snipers.

Bagheera

Okay, so we're not talking Recon with a Lambert, we're talking Recon with a sniper rifle, the real deal. Although I know it's not too popular, I'm really starting to enjoy being a squad member who picks off the wounded who run out of (normal) gun range, or being the guy that softens up the incoming squad so that my guys mow them down easily. Also, when capping flags, I'll run AWAY from the flag, and take up a defensive position (including having placed RDX in vehicle paths) to watch for spawns/incoming threats while my guys are doing their thing, and spotting/sniping as they come in.

What are your thoughts as to a sniper Sniper in an active squad role? Especially a squad that is always on the move?