Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders - Page 2

Hidus · 07-17-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see how using the V key would be an advantage on the battlefield.

When commanding I identify the squads I'm speaking to via their number or name. This should alleviate any confusion. I *want* all squad leaders to hear what I am ordering so that they can maintain a picture of our troop movements in their head, and perhaps respond to the situation quicker than if I were to order them to move.

When I'm a squad leader I am constantly calling up the map to monitor the position of my team, I appreciate a vocal commander that gives me the ability to plan movement based on what other squads are doing, or are being ordered to do.

Suffice to say, I have never had a reason to use the V key when commanding, and doubt I ever will.

For starters It's a pain to even remember what number squad you are since it changes round to round. If the commander is filtering intel properly then everything that crosses the wire applies to you so you don't have to constantly evaluate intel to figure out if they are talking to you or to some other guy. It's like the classic "dude he's right behind you!" line. Right behind who? By directing traffic the CO removes all ambiguity and the orders are more clear and precise.

Imperator · 07-17-2007, 03:42 PM

When in doubt, check the top left of your HUD. Squad number is listed there.

My orders are never very technical; defend, attack, or move. I don't bust out asking for Alpha squad to form two fire teams and execute a flanking maneuver.

Hidus · 07-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

When in doubt, check the top left of your HUD. Squad number is listed there.

My orders are never very technical; defend, attack, or move. I don't bust out asking for Alpha squad to form two fire teams and execute a flanking maneuver.

It's not that constantly remembering your squad number is rocket science, it's that it's a mental mapping that is completely unnecessary if the commander if directing intel properly. It's irrelevant what squad # you are when every command that crosses the wire is related to your squad.

Zoopy_T · 07-17-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see how using the V key would be an advantage on the battlefield.

When commanding I identify the squads I'm speaking to via their number or name. This should alleviate any confusion. I *want* all squad leaders to hear what I am ordering so that they can maintain a picture of our troop movements in their head, and perhaps respond to the situation quicker than if I were to order them to move.

When I'm a squad leader I am constantly calling up the map to monitor the position of my team, I appreciate a vocal commander that gives me the ability to plan movement based on what other squads are doing, or are being ordered to do.

Suffice to say, I have never had a reason to use the V key when commanding, and doubt I ever will.

As a Squad Leader, I do not care what is happening to other squads unless I am order to assist them. I try to keep my squad self-contained until I decide/ordered to support with another squad. Me hearing what you want other squads to do causes me not to hear what my squad members are saying, thus I lose crucial information on my immediate surroundings.

If any commander uses only 'B' to communicate, they are muted by me.

Imperator · 07-17-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoopy_T

As a Squad Leader, I do not care what is happening to other squads unless I am order to assist them. I try to keep my squad self-contained until I decide/ordered to support with another squad. Me hearing what you want other squads to do causes me not to hear what my squad members are saying, thus I lose crucial information on my immediate surroundings.

If any commander uses only 'B' to communicate, they are muted by me.

You misunderstood me. I'm not a chatterbox commander. The intel I relay is very little, unless its critical. I like to let my squad leaders do their thing. But the intel I DO relay I want everyone to be aware of.

Its a moot point though, we get idiots at commander because rarely does any TG member want to do it.

moxmax · 07-17-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see how using the V key would be an advantage on the battlefield.

When commanding I identify the squads I'm speaking to via their number or name. This should alleviate any confusion. I *want* all squad leaders to hear what I am ordering so that they can maintain a picture of our troop movements in their head, and perhaps respond to the situation quicker than if I were to order them to move.

When I'm a squad leader I am constantly calling up the map to monitor the position of my team, I appreciate a vocal commander that gives me the ability to plan movement based on what other squads are doing, or are being ordered to do.

Suffice to say, I have never had a reason to use the V key when commanding, and doubt I ever will.

I think that this is a very valid point, but I also understand why some sl's don't like it. I am going to start to talk to individual squads and see how it works out. I can't say that it will help me improve as a commander or hurt my abilities, but I will let you guys know how I do. I will see most of you this week. and please let me know how I do when I am commanding "in Game"

and Imperator, try it out and post back here what you think, maybe you and I would find it more benefitial, maybe not, but it would be nice to know.

Also in regards to muting the commander, isn't that not following the CO orders? and when the comander mutes the SL is that also against TG? I am curious.

Aerosecurity · 07-17-2007, 05:03 PM

Well, heres the way I see it. There IS some information that is important for all squads to hear. For example, if you do not want anyone attacking a certain base, you can make it clear to all squads that under no circumstances should you attack that base.

Usually, you should give orders to individual squads, and not to everyone else. Frankly, i gets confusing when your commander starts issuing orders to everyone, because then you have to listen to ALL the orders to EVERY squad on your team, not just your own. Mentally, it gets fatiguing trying to figure out what our specific orders are, and I found myself constantly asking the commander for clarification of orders because I didn't catch a name, or didn't catch a word that was meant for my squad and not for some other squad. If you give orders to individual squads, you can make sure they heard and understood your orders, or even have them repeat their orders to you to make sure they got it right.

I think there is only one circumstance that a commander should give orders to all squads at once, and that is at the beginning of the round during the 1.5 minute cooldown. And even then, these should be very general orders which should be cleared up to each squad individually. This gives them sufficient initial situational awareness to get them moving to their assigned posts. These orders should be like "1,2 - outpost, 3 - junkyard, 4 - powerstation." Then afterward, go into the individual squad channels and give them more specific orders.

Zoopy_T · 07-17-2007, 05:40 PM

Ok here's an example of what not to say over the coms using 'B' (Someone in this thread is guilty of it but I won't name names).

The set up: Fall or Berlin, I'm squad 1 and am defending Crossroads, there's squad (say squad 2) flanking up the north side to the back base.

Commander: "Ok squad 2 you got 3 guys behind"
Commander: "ok they are right on you now"
Commander: "OH MAN! good job guys"
Commander: "ok you have more guys in front of you"
Commander: "They are right in front of you know"
Commander: "Watch out they are right there"
.
.
.
So forth and so on. Now how does this help me as Squad 1? It doesn't.

**MDFubar** · 07-17-2007, 06:56 PM

The instance you describe would mess up a squad, but I have to say that IMperator did not "over"communicate and the orders where specific. myabe it is just me, but I like to know what is going on where, granted that I am not the best SL, so I know what to expect.
If I(squad one) am defending Power Station and squad is flanking Eastern Docks while suqad three is holding Junkyard we can assume that a push will come on the Junkyard as two of our squads are further away. As an Sl I will adjust my squad to a better position to assist squad three, from the southern roof we can suppress the area around the boat. Situational awarensess is key.
Over using the "b" key is not a wise decision, but using it effectively is a very good thing. Everyone has thier reasons for doing what they do and I have played with quite a few different TG CO's. Very distinguishable differences and you can tell who is doing what.

Fehmart · 07-17-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

You misunderstood me. I'm not a chatterbox commander. The intel I relay is very little, unless its critical. I like to let my squad leaders do their thing. But the intel I DO relay I want everyone to be aware of.

Its a moot point though, we get idiots at commander because rarely does any TG member want to do it.

I think the main issue that spawned this thread is CO chat spam to all squads in any form. If Imperator briefly talks to all SLs about something throughout a round, and doesn't spend half the round leaning on B, then there is no problem. Detailed communications should go to individual squads, to avoid cluttering other SLs' lines.

SLs should do their part as well, as noted by Birdman. All SLs should identify their squad QUICKLY when communicating with the CO, to make it very easy for the CO to respond to the proper squad.

**Vortex421** · 07-17-2007, 10:39 PM

I'll be honest -- I don't command that much and, until stumbling on this thread, never even knew that the V key could be used for such a purpose. LOL So yes, definitely an eye-opener.

It's partly for this reason that I dislike commanding or squad leading -- while I have a tactical understanding of the situation and can apply it as a squad leader or commander, I don't yet feel entirely comfortable with the added duties associated with the two spots. This does not mean that I haven't led before -- or led well (as some people claim) -- it's just my natural preference to do my best as a member of the squad instead of a leader. LOL

But yes, I'll keep this in mind if/when I do commanding. May not be pretty, but if it happens we'll see how it pans out.

**Tarenth** · 07-18-2007, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see how using the V key would be an advantage on the battlefield.

When commanding I identify the squads I'm speaking to via their number or name. This should alleviate any confusion. I *want* all squad leaders to hear what I am ordering so that they can maintain a picture of our troop movements in their head, and perhaps respond to the situation quicker than if I were to order them to move.

When I'm a squad leader I am constantly calling up the map to monitor the position of my team, I appreciate a vocal commander that gives me the ability to plan movement based on what other squads are doing, or are being ordered to do.

Suffice to say, I have never had a reason to use the V key when commanding, and doubt I ever will.

There are great COs that would make horrible SLs and there are great SLs that would make horrible COs. Having the assumption that you have great SLs that would also make great COs will cause a bit of confusion.

Everyone has access to the information the CO has. The only difference between that information is the CO is expected to sit in the base and play RTS with the troops as they stare at the map and order the use of assets. With more 'face time' with the map they are given a better strategic view of the battlefield and can thus fine tune the movements of the squads with orders.

Not everyone has access to the information the SL has. The reason for this is because the SL is the eyes in the field that takes in things in their area for immediate attention and action. They could pull up the map and start looking at things from the CO's point of view, but that would pull their eyes away from the field and what they are employed to do. With less 'face time' with the map and more time on the line they are given a better tactical view of the battle field and can thus fine tune the movements of the squad members with orders.

When the CO starts discussing strategy with their squad leaders it interferes with the squad leaders discussing tactics with their squad members. Then you have a break down in communications as the lines are cluttered with chatter and the squad leaders have to decide if they can risk not listening to the CO for a moment so they can do their jobs as SLs.

The SL decides on the tactics on how to win an engagement.
The CO decides on the strategy on how to win the battle.

Acreo Aeneas · 07-18-2007, 07:46 PM

The point of this thread: Don't clutter up the squad-wide VoIP channel (B) with unneccesary CO talk.

There. Sums it up.

**draeh** · 07-18-2007, 09:06 PM

I had a really good CO last night as EU on Suez around 10:30PM EDT. This guy actually warned of impending OSs before he dropped them. I was utterly amazed to hear my CO say "Pull back, I'm going to Orbital". I wish I'd gotten his name.

Bagheera · 07-20-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarenth

There are great COs that would make horrible SLs and there are great SLs that would make horrible COs. Having the assumption that you have great SLs that would also make great COs will cause a bit of confusion.

Everyone has access to the information the CO has. The only difference between that information is the CO is expected to sit in the base and play RTS with the troops as they stare at the map and order the use of assets. With more 'face time' with the map they are given a better strategic view of the battlefield and can thus fine tune the movements of the squads with orders.

Not everyone has access to the information the SL has. The reason for this is because the SL is the eyes in the field that takes in things in their area for immediate attention and action. They could pull up the map and start looking at things from the CO's point of view, but that would pull their eyes away from the field and what they are employed to do. With less 'face time' with the map and more time on the line they are given a better tactical view of the battle field and can thus fine tune the movements of the squad members with orders.

When the CO starts discussing strategy with their squad leaders it interferes with the squad leaders discussing tactics with their squad members. Then you have a break down in communications as the lines are cluttered with chatter and the squad leaders have to decide if they can risk not listening to the CO for a moment so they can do their jobs as SLs.

The SL decides on the tactics on how to win an engagement.
The CO decides on the strategy on how to win the battle.

I've found that engagement size determines CO style as well. In a huge game, a CO can sit in a titan or a base and just direct. In a very small engagement, a CO has to take a more active role.

For example in a very large titan game, I was CO (as engineer) and sat in the titan the whole time directing, and on occasion doing the occasional titan bombardment to support my troops, and fixing our assets and repairing titan guns.

In a very small conquest game, I went Recon with a sniper rifle, used the scope in addition to my radar, and guarded the cap base closest to our UCB with RDX while directing the troops on the front line from the command menu.

07-17-2007, 03:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Imperator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Michigan, USA Age: 23 Posts: 47	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders When in doubt, check the top left of your HUD. Squad number is listed there. My orders are never very technical; defend, attack, or move. I don't bust out asking for Alpha squad to form two fire teams and execute a flanking maneuver. __________________

07-17-2007, 05:03 PM	#22 (permalink)
Aerosecurity Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Carolina State University Age: 20 Posts: 288	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders Well, heres the way I see it. There IS some information that is important for all squads to hear. For example, if you do not want anyone attacking a certain base, you can make it clear to all squads that under no circumstances should you attack that base. Usually, you should give orders to individual squads, and not to everyone else. Frankly, i gets confusing when your commander starts issuing orders to everyone, because then you have to listen to ALL the orders to EVERY squad on your team, not just your own. Mentally, it gets fatiguing trying to figure out what our specific orders are, and I found myself constantly asking the commander for clarification of orders because I didn't catch a name, or didn't catch a word that was meant for my squad and not for some other squad. If you give orders to individual squads, you can make sure they heard and understood your orders, or even have them repeat their orders to you to make sure they got it right. I think there is only one circumstance that a commander should give orders to all squads at once, and that is at the beginning of the round during the 1.5 minute cooldown. And even then, these should be very general orders which should be cleared up to each squad individually. This gives them sufficient initial situational awareness to get them moving to their assigned posts. These orders should be like "1,2 - outpost, 3 - junkyard, 4 - powerstation." Then afterward, go into the individual squad channels and give them more specific orders. __________________ umm... hello?

07-17-2007, 05:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
Zoopy_T Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,641	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders Ok here's an example of what not to say over the coms using 'B' (Someone in this thread is guilty of it but I won't name names). The set up: Fall or Berlin, I'm squad 1 and am defending Crossroads, there's squad (say squad 2) flanking up the north side to the back base. Commander: "Ok squad 2 you got 3 guys behind" Commander: "ok they are right on you now" Commander: "OH MAN! good job guys" Commander: "ok you have more guys in front of you" Commander: "They are right in front of you know" Commander: "Watch out they are right there" . . . So forth and so on. Now how does this help me as Squad 1? It doesn't.

07-17-2007, 06:56 PM	#24 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,744	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders The instance you describe would mess up a squad, but I have to say that IMperator did not "over"communicate and the orders where specific. myabe it is just me, but I like to know what is going on where, granted that I am not the best SL, so I know what to expect. If I(squad one) am defending Power Station and squad is flanking Eastern Docks while suqad three is holding Junkyard we can assume that a push will come on the Junkyard as two of our squads are further away. As an Sl I will adjust my squad to a better position to assist squad three, from the southern roof we can suppress the area around the boat. Situational awarensess is key. Over using the "b" key is not a wise decision, but using it effectively is a very good thing. Everyone has thier reasons for doing what they do and I have played with quite a few different TG CO's. Very distinguishable differences and you can tell who is doing what. __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

07-17-2007, 10:39 PM	#26 (permalink)
Vortex421 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Muncie, IN Age: 24 Posts: 961	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders I'll be honest -- I don't command that much and, until stumbling on this thread, never even knew that the V key could be used for such a purpose. LOL So yes, definitely an eye-opener. It's partly for this reason that I dislike commanding or squad leading -- while I have a tactical understanding of the situation and can apply it as a squad leader or commander, I don't yet feel entirely comfortable with the added duties associated with the two spots. This does not mean that I haven't led before -- or led well (as some people claim) -- it's just my natural preference to do my best as a member of the squad instead of a leader. LOL But yes, I'll keep this in mind if/when I do commanding. May not be pretty, but if it happens we'll see how it pans out.

07-18-2007, 07:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 3,981	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders The point of this thread: Don't clutter up the squad-wide VoIP channel (B) with unneccesary CO talk. There. Sums it up. __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th Member "People usually see me and ask if I speak Chinese. I respond by asking if they speak American." "Tomorrow's high-end tech today? Why bother, it'll be old when tomorrow arrives anyways."

07-18-2007, 09:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
draeh Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Austintown, Ohio Age: 36 Posts: 2,401	Re: Attention COs : Talking to Individual Squad Leaders I had a really good CO last night as EU on Suez around 10:30PM EDT. This guy actually warned of impending OSs before he dropped them. I was utterly amazed to hear my CO say "Pull back, I'm going to Orbital". I wish I'd gotten his name. __________________ Ikariam (Alpha) Toruos[44:84]>Non Sequitur(c)-Sulfur :: Nyyos[44:85]>Obesa Cantavit-Wine Tiaayos[43:84]>Stercus Accidit-Marble :: Emytia[45:85]>Vacca Foeda-Crystal Nyyos[44:85]>Obesus Porcus-Wine Dirtboy's 2142 Evolution - Improving Situational Awareness! My Screenies - My Webpage - Xfire

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