Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 12:36 PM

I thought it'd be interesting to hear what you guys had to say about different squad roles in Fall of Berlin, Defense or Offense. Also, feel free to discuss different situations (Loss of outpost, square, etc).

[EU] Southern Defense:

Quote:

As a commander(EU), I see that its often difficult to convince a squad to hold the south side. Its rarely attacked as everyone is obsessed with the north, but when it is attacked, it can have devastating effects. When I do see it defended is primarily in the beginning, but then even a few minutes into the game, its left alone if no PAC is there. Hard to beat it into people that sometimes they need to sit at a cold spot just in case it gets hot. I'd almost wager that in this map, the south side is 90% of the time a deciding factor on whether PAC breaks through or not. With that being said, I think that a defense with something like:

LEGEND:
RED O - Original spawn point
GREEN X - Optional mines
RED ARROWS - Path
ORANGE AREA - Defensive Line

SUGGESTED KITS:
2 ENG
3 MED
1 SUP

I like this move, because it puts up redundancy on the north side for an early APC rush, and it counters an early APC rush to the south by moving a squad to that side immediately. In addition, the defensive line if mined forces any APC or Walker to remain in the middle which is ideal to force the most fire possible onto it. I would suggest moving a beacon to the south side of the ladder to roadblock, behind the vehicles there as a forward spawn point.

LOSE OF CONTROL POINT:
-- Crossroads --
Retreat to Roadblock

[EU] Balcony Defense

Quote:

Credits: Damonte

A squad positions itself on the southern edge of the building just west of crossroads along or near the balcony. From that position, they mine the southern pass. They basically act as rapid response for the north (being in LOS of the flag and middle road), but primarily concentrate on the south alleyway.

LEGEND:
RED O - Original spawn point
RED X - Defensive mines
RED ARROWS - Path
ORANGE AREA - Defensive Line

SUGGESTED KITS:
3 MED
2 ENG
1 SUP

The advantages of this position are the obvious location benefits and LOS on various chokepoints. In addition, the access to the Rorsch for anti-vehicular.

LOSE OF CONTROL POINT:
-- Crossroads --
Retreat to Roadblock

[EU] Northern Defense

Quote:

This squads spawns on Roadblock (although they could easily spawn on Crossroads) and moves the north side. They RDX/APM the north alley way to dissuade or even stop any man who gets passed. Once on the north side, they pummel the ice wall with rockets and nades, ensuring that no man gets passed.

LEGEND:
RED O - Original spawn point
RED X - Defensive RDX/APM
RED ARROWS - Path
ORANGE AREA - Defensive Line

SUGGESTED KITS:
4 MED
1 SUP
1 REC

The advantages of this point is that they are very close to the flag if it starts to go down. Keeping that in mind, they should not entirely abandon their post the retake the flag as that will be the moment infiltrators will get in if at any time. Anti-Vehicular shouldnt be needed. A beacon could be placed just west of the red X.

LOSE OF CONTROL POINT:
-- Crossroads --
Maintain position

--Roadblock--
Retake point if possible, retreat if not

[EU] Centered Armour

Quote:

Two men spawn at outpost to obtain the vehicles and bring them to the front line. They maintain the APC to the west of the Crossroads flag, and the Walker as a rapid response to any push. The other 4 members initially mine crossroads to deter a armoured rush, and once the friendly armour is at the front line, two join the vehicles while the other two help maintain a mined line.

LEGEND:
RED O - Original spawn point
RED X - Defensive mines
RED ARROWS - Path
ORANGE AREA - Defensive Line

SUGGESTED KITS:
1 MED
1 SUP
4 ENG

This squad will need to react to changing circumstances quickly and will need to keep their armour repaired. With assistance from the commander this should not be difficult. In addition, they NEED to maintain a mined center and northern route.

LOSE OF CONTROL POINT:
-- Crossroads --
Retreat to roadblock

I look forward to hearing everyone else's strategies, comments, and opinions on the matter.

--NOTE--
The flags are ordered as such:
Outpost -> Square -> Roadblock -> Crossroads -> Streets (UCB)
I know the lock is not supposed to be there, but alas, I just found this image and it works

The original image for the next strategy:
Original Image

**Damonte** · 08-10-2007, 12:40 PM

From a defensive aspect, I think the south side is probably the easiest to defend.

A single engineer can mine the southern passage back far enough so that a walker or APC can't get close enough to shoot around the bend.

From the balcony or the ledge a squad of assault/support infantry can use grenades, rockets and Ganz to keep the enemy from advancing up on foot. The real beauty is that if the flag gets threatened, the attention can shift north at an angle to drop rockets on the flag area without actually leaving position.

I have seen a squad + two engineers hold off twice their number on that southern passage with little assistance from vehicles. That frees up the APC to mortar the northern hill and the walker to stalk back and forth across the middle.

However, if Crossroads falls, I almost never tell my squad to recapture it unless it is lightly defended. I think that Roadblock is by far a more defensable position. With rocketeers on the second floor overlooking the flag and the east balcony, plus the APC mortaring the northern route... it's a kill zone.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damonte

From a defensive aspect, I think the south side is probably the easiest to defend.

Oh I agree. Thats why I find it so sad that the reason most flags are lost behind the lines are people infiltrating on the south side.

With that note, I was about to post about a center defense, but its fairly easily described. They need to maintain mines on the center road, and be primarily located on or near the building due west of crossroads. This enables them to react to those that get behind the lines, assist the south if need be, or even push into crossroads flag if contested. I would think the kit layout for this squad would be:

4 MED
1 ENG
1 SUP

My reasoning behind this is that they would probably be under a lot heavier fire, and would need to revive more often. A sniper may fit into this squad as well, with RDX for the crossroads flag and APM for the southern ladder.

**MDFubar** · 08-10-2007, 01:39 PM

My first questionis, Have you CO'ed on our server? Because we pound it into everyone's head to follow orders, this is not negotiable....it is a rule that we stick to!

I would have to agree that defending that point is rather cold at times, but neccassary. I would rather move the mines up to the south passage and help stop the APC and Walker from trying to advance that way. Iprefer to defend crossroads and try to stop and advance, I usually will have the squad spawn in on CR and lay RDX and APM's on the flag. Mine the road and then mine the alley and fall back to string defensive points.

I f we are attacking I try to have the CO lead us with an EPM and an Orbital Strike so we can break through.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

My first questionis, Have you CO'ed on our server? Because we pound it into everyone's head to follow orders, this is not negotiable....it is a rule that we stick to!

I agree, it should be that way, but its amazing how many times it doesnt.

Quote:

I would have to agree that defending that point is rather cold at times, but neccassary. I would rather move the mines up to the south passage and help stop the APC and Walker from trying to advance that way. Iprefer to defend crossroads and try to stop and advance, I usually will have the squad spawn in on CR and lay RDX and APM's on the flag. Mine the road and then mine the alley and fall back to string defensive points.

String defensive points scares me. I have see good teams lose because the men are so scattered that revives are few and far between. As far as the mines go, the green X symbolizes the initial spawn in, to help stop an early rush (redundancy, cuz the squads spawning on crossroads SHOULD get it) and then from there out they should be on the south side.

-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damonte

From a defensive aspect, I think the south side is probably the easiest to defend.

A single engineer can mine the southern passage back far enough so that a walker or APC can't get close enough to shoot around the bend.

From the balcony or the ledge a squad of assault/support infantry can use grenades, rockets and Ganz to keep the enemy from advancing up on foot. The real beauty is that if the flag gets threatened, the attention can shift north at an angle to drop rockets on the flag area without actually leaving position.

I have seen a squad + two engineers hold off twice their number on that southern passage with little assistance from vehicles. That frees up the APC to mortar the northern hill and the walker to stalk back and forth across the middle.

However, if Crossroads falls, I almost never tell my squad to recapture it unless it is lightly defended. I think that Roadblock is by far a more defensable position. With rocketeers on the second floor overlooking the flag and the east balcony, plus the APC mortaring the northern route... it's a kill zone.

If I didnt get the jist of your strategy right, please correct me

---

On an aside, I'd like to note that the majority of problems I see with defending on fall of berlin is people neglecting a assault point. Everyone's so obsessed with whats happenning now they dont see holes in the defense, or they get so strung around that tickets just drop. Also, expect more mini strategies like in the original post. I am having a good time drawing up a few.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 02:38 PM

I added a few more defensive strategies, but I am curious as to what people have to say about countering these/infiltrating behind the lines? I honestly have no good plans for getting behind the lines except 'RUN LIKE HELL'

**MDFubar** · 08-10-2007, 02:40 PM

To Clarify,
My squad would move from crossroads to the southern alley and take up a point ther. On the way, they would lay the RDX, APM's, and Mines. The recon would take a point to safely watch the flag and help defend so as to stay alive and detonate the RDX.
the defense point you have on your original post is good, it gives you a chance to fire accross the road and keep the enemy pinned.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

To Clarify,
My squad would move from crossroads to the southern alley and take up a point ther. On the way, they would lay the RDX, APM's, and Mines. The recon would take a point to safely watch the flag and help defend so as to stay alive and detonate the RDX.
the defense point you have on your original post is good, it gives you a chance to fire accross the road and keep the enemy pinned.

Ah, so when you said string defense you meant string of explosives. Gotcha.

Icehawk217 · 08-10-2007, 02:45 PM

The issue i have seen with a squad moving along the southern side of the map is the huge open area they have to cover in order to get to a flag. Most people wont stop off at Roadblock because it is easy to get killed by people defending crossroads. So they press on. The better cover is along the edge of the map, and then the squads get stuck in that pointless area south of Square and Roadblock. Its easier IMO to get to a flag alive from the north side, unless the vehicles are there. Its just a difficult map to get through on.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icehawk217

The issue i have seen with a squad moving along the southern side of the map is the huge open area they have to cover in order to get to a flag. Most people wont stop off at Roadblock because it is easy to get killed by people defending crossroads. So they press on. The better cover is along the edge of the map, and then the squads get stuck in that pointless area south of Square and Roadblock. Its easier IMO to get to a flag alive from the north side, unless the vehicles are there. Its just a difficult map to get through on.

I agree, thats why i said above that it seems most initial strategies for this map on PAC are 'Run and pray they dont see you'

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 03:12 PM

Here's one for a north push, but I cant decide on a good squad layout.

[PAC] North Strike

Quote:

Push out over the ice wall, and using the commander's assistance with an orbital to the north of crossroads will provide cover on the run. Once to the Monorail access, a choice must be made to either strike Square or Outpost. This should be made with the commander's assistance, as he will give you information on enemy locations. It may also be wise to send 4 out of the 6 members to attempt Square while the squad leader and a medic push towards Outpost.

LEGEND:
RED O - Initial spawn
RED LINE - Path
BLUE CIRCLE - Monorail Access
GREEN CIRCLES - Good beacon positions
YELLOW AREA - Orbital location

SUGGESTED KITS
A)
4 REC
1 MED
1 ENG

B)
4 MED
1 ENG
1 SUP

C)
6 REC

--
Here is my question. Is it better for the majority of the members to have stealth, or all of them? Or should you push with a standard squad? My thinking is two fold. An entire stealthed squad has a better chance of getting ONE man way behind the lines, and even one man will cause a lot of men to pull off the front lines to deal with him, whereas a more diverse squad has a much better chance of getting through alive, but they will be seen and will have to deal with a lot more heat.
--

**Anospa** · 08-10-2007, 03:27 PM

Generally, if one person is stealth and is killed, a squad will do a very thorough search to find any more possible lurkers. When I do this, I'll generally have my squad hold their spawn until I think we're in a reasonable position, have them spawn in, send two to the nearest flag, and continue on with the rest. Once I get to a decently defensible position, I'll drop a beacon just in case (I usually hate using beacons) and continue onwards to outpost.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anospa

Generally, if one person is stealth and is killed, a squad will do a very thorough search to find any more possible lurkers. When I do this, I'll generally have my squad hold their spawn until I think we're in a reasonable position, have them spawn in, send two to the nearest flag, and continue on with the rest. Once I get to a decently defensible position, I'll drop a beacon just in case (I usually hate using beacons) and continue onwards to outpost.

I've seen that tactic before, where the SL is the only one infiltrating and then once behind the lines everyone spawns. It always makes me cringe because:

A) You have taken 5 people out of the battle for how long while you get behind the lines?

B) If you die, there is no one there to bring you back and back to point A

-- EDIT

On another note, I have seen it work, and work well especially in the middle which is just down right bold. On the north face I would think there would be too many men to survive consistently with rockets and grenades. On the south face, the ladder makes your cloak mute.

**Anospa** · 08-10-2007, 06:19 PM

You also lose cloaking on the north side once you fall over that cliff for a short instance. Down the middle, I've made it all but twice. First was an APC mortar from my own team, and second was an observant EU soldier.

DLBlue · 08-10-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anospa

You also lose cloaking on the north side once you fall over that cliff for a short instance.

Really? I hadnt noticed... I should pay better attention

08-10-2007, 12:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Damonte Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Age: 29 Posts: 1,318	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin From a defensive aspect, I think the south side is probably the easiest to defend. A single engineer can mine the southern passage back far enough so that a walker or APC can't get close enough to shoot around the bend. From the balcony or the ledge a squad of assault/support infantry can use grenades, rockets and Ganz to keep the enemy from advancing up on foot. The real beauty is that if the flag gets threatened, the attention can shift north at an angle to drop rockets on the flag area without actually leaving position. I have seen a squad + two engineers hold off twice their number on that southern passage with little assistance from vehicles. That frees up the APC to mortar the northern hill and the walker to stalk back and forth across the middle. However, if Crossroads falls, I almost never tell my squad to recapture it unless it is lightly defended. I think that Roadblock is by far a more defensable position. With rocketeers on the second floor overlooking the flag and the east balcony, plus the APC mortaring the northern route... it's a kill zone. __________________ TG Primer \| BF2142 Server Rules \| BF2142 SOP's Report An Infraction \| BF2142 Admins \| 3rd SFD Wiki ....

08-10-2007, 01:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,667	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin My first questionis, Have you CO'ed on our server? Because we pound it into everyone's head to follow orders, this is not negotiable....it is a rule that we stick to! I would have to agree that defending that point is rather cold at times, but neccassary. I would rather move the mines up to the south passage and help stop the APC and Walker from trying to advance that way. Iprefer to defend crossroads and try to stop and advance, I usually will have the squad spawn in on CR and lay RDX and APM's on the flag. Mine the road and then mine the alley and fall back to string defensive points. I f we are attacking I try to have the CO lead us with an EPM and an Orbital Strike so we can break through. __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

08-10-2007, 02:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
DLBlue Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 232	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin I added a few more defensive strategies, but I am curious as to what people have to say about countering these/infiltrating behind the lines? I honestly have no good plans for getting behind the lines except 'RUN LIKE HELL'

08-10-2007, 02:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 40 Posts: 1,667	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin To Clarify, My squad would move from crossroads to the southern alley and take up a point ther. On the way, they would lay the RDX, APM's, and Mines. The recon would take a point to safely watch the flag and help defend so as to stay alive and detonate the RDX. the defense point you have on your original post is good, it gives you a chance to fire accross the road and keep the enemy pinned. __________________ "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST TG-21ST DIVISION**

08-10-2007, 02:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
Icehawk217 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Jersey (refurbished is more like it) Posts: 229	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin The issue i have seen with a squad moving along the southern side of the map is the huge open area they have to cover in order to get to a flag. Most people wont stop off at Roadblock because it is easy to get killed by people defending crossroads. So they press on. The better cover is along the edge of the map, and then the squads get stuck in that pointless area south of Square and Roadblock. Its easier IMO to get to a flag alive from the north side, unless the vehicles are there. Its just a difficult map to get through on. __________________ "Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute. Light the man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life"

08-10-2007, 03:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Anospa Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeastern University (Boston) Age: 21 Posts: 3,658	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin Generally, if one person is stealth and is killed, a squad will do a very thorough search to find any more possible lurkers. When I do this, I'll generally have my squad hold their spawn until I think we're in a reasonable position, have them spawn in, send two to the nearest flag, and continue on with the rest. Once I get to a decently defensible position, I'll drop a beacon just in case (I usually hate using beacons) and continue onwards to outpost. __________________ "Brittle?! Dude you just took a localized tactical warhead to the face." -Eroak

08-10-2007, 06:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
Anospa Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeastern University (Boston) Age: 21 Posts: 3,658	Re: Map Tactics - Fall of Berlin You also lose cloaking on the north side once you fall over that cliff for a short instance. Down the middle, I've made it all but twice. First was an APC mortar from my own team, and second was an observant EU soldier. __________________ "Brittle?! Dude you just took a localized tactical warhead to the face." -Eroak

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