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Discussion: Tactical / Battlefield 3 - Input from TG BF3 players - Originally Posted by ProjectNA This is confusing for me - are you saying that you
  1. #31

    Zoticus's Avatar

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectNA View Post
    This is confusing for me - are you saying that you are going to other servers to experience teamwork, communication and tactical play? Are you having a better experience in these three areas somewhere else???
    I can relate to hil3illy's original comment. With the current server settings an enjoyable evening is not assured on either server. Sometimes its very fun, sometimes its OK and sometimes its not. Its hard to pin down the cause exactly.

    Sometimes I'll pub-raid with a squad or two of friends and we have a fun and tactical evening every time, winning or losing. Maybe the server settings are more to our liking? Its hard to say for sure, but I wanted to echo hil3illy's point and emphasize he's not the only one to experience that. In BF2142 or BC2 I rarely played at servers other than TG so its a little surprising that this is the case.



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  3. #32
    Xen
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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Zot I have a question for ya, when you do get some TG'er together and pub raid, is it with more than 4 members? If so, are you all in the same channel cordinating?

    The point I'm trying to make, having 8 different squads running around not communicating with each other, is not and will never promote, TEAMWORK, COMMUNICATION, or TACTICAL Play. Sure you might get a small amount with the 4 guys in your squad. How can you call it Teamwork, if 7/8th's of the TEAM don't know the WORK you are doing? Communication is key for TEAMWORK and TACTICS. Yet, all I ever hear about a Team wide channel is, there is too much chatter, and it get's confusing. Guess what, with SOP's, everyone can get on the same page on how to keep Com's clear of pointless chatter. Actually put some work into improving the game instead of throwing the lame excuse of, the game just doesn't promote it, or TS just can't support it.

    Now, I am not even sure this is possible but, we need teamsync to poll each squad and take each player in the SL spot and put them in a second channel. SL cordination channel if you will. I setup V and B as my hotkeys for Squad channel and SL whisper list. I could easily use the SL whisper list hotkey for a automated SL cordination channel. I know @SL ON, is supposed to do that, but I'm still not sure if it's working. I never see many people use it.




    Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

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  5. #33
    Ven
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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectNA View Post
    Are admins really getting rampant reports about people using 'cheesy' tactics, or is it really a few upset individuals are posting on the same issues repeatedly?
    No because we are told to monitor ourselves with these types of issues, and personally I don't see that happening.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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    Ven
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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLancerMancer View Post
    I can't contribute much to this because I'm unable to play at the moment, and thus don't truly see what occurs on the servers.

    However, I'd just like to chime in a little on the bolt-action flame I'm seeing here. Recon/Sniper is my baby, it's what I do. For the record I find it really unfair to say anything less than a 6X Scope on bolt actions should be disallowed. I commonly run 3.4X and 4X scopes on the bolt actions because they allow you to see a larger area when scoped in than higher magnification scopes do, making them perfect if you're mainly engaging targets at medium range. BF3 allows you to modify your kits without leaving the match, and quite frankly you'd be foolish not to modify your kit loadout to best suit the situation you will spawn into. I know all of you do this with the other kits, so why is that any different for Recon? Before my GPU died, I would switch optics just about every other life. Also, the laser sight is a perfectly acceptable attachment for the bolt actions, as it improves your accuracy in the crucial half second it takes to aim down your sights, so if you have to take a shot as quickly as possible there's a lower chance of the round going off into some random corner of the screen.

    I realize the primary concern about Snipers here is 1x-4x optics, Straight Pull bolt, Laser Sight, bolt action setups. Yes it's usually unrealistic, yes they typically run around like it's an assault kit, yes they usually get 1 shot kills at <20m because of 75% health. But quite frankly the majority of these I've seen have been mediocre or outright terrible players, or been using mechanisms such as bunny-hopping or forwards-dolphin-dive and thus don't last long on our servers anyway.


    TL;DR The "Problem" with bolt action snipers is a matter of playstyle, and cannot be fixed by restricting what optics or other attachments they are allowed to use. Frankly I'm shocked that anyone would even suggest such a thing. If you don't want a sniper in your squad then just say so.

    I'd first say not to judge others, because that's the admins job ultimately. If you are going to; judge them by their playstyle, not by their loadout.
    3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.


    Lancer....not to be disrespectful....and maybe I am wrong, but with your entire argument don't you see that going completely against the primer? Also see what our acting GO has written below



    "And we're not going to let BF3's inherent lack of realism be an excuse for "anything goes".

    The players should immerse themselves in the world created by the game and not break the simulation by gaming the game, using exploits, or game engine shortcomings. In addition, the use of real-world tactics and strategies, is encouraged, expected, and even required. If you're not certain what this means, Tactical Gamer University is a great way to learn more. Suicide tactics will always be prohibited, as will bunny hopping, nascar driving and a variety of things that have no place in the simulation of modern armies that BF3 provides."



    This is all I am going to say about it. Somehow I got caught up in this....again, and it's not what I intended for this thread.
    In a nutshell I just wonder if anyone else feels a slipping in the values.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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  9. #35

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    To be honest, threads like this have been keeping me away from the BF3 forums for some weeks now. They generally devolve to the same discussions, all of which are fruitless and simply serve to engender negativity among the members of the community.

    My suggestions to avoid this in the future:

    1) Let's examine the specific reasons for the complaints we have prior to posting about them. Doing so ought to make postings more to the point and productive instead of causing a rehashing of old arguments.
    2) Consider posting in the Contact an Admin forum prior to posting in the general forums. I've done so in the past regarding such things as server setting feedback and it was well received. Sometimes the admins can give a perspective on something that's bothering us that we might not have thought about previously.
    3) If you notice a TG member using a play style with which you don't agree, try PMing the person and asking them about it. They might have a different perspective or reason for its use than you'd have previously considered, or they might not realize what they're doing is bothering anyone else.
    4) Most importantly, take a deep breath and count to ten before replying to a thread. If you find that a discussion is raising your blood pressure, walk away from it for a little while, consider the point you're trying to make and why you're upset, then come back to it when you've cooled off.

    I believe that if we all are simply a little more cognizant of what we say and how we say it, the forums could be a much more drama-free place.

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    In aswer to Xen's question; I've been on many raids with 3 - 8 people, most typically with 3-4, using a single TS channel. We play a variety of game types (rush, team DM, squad DM, good old conquest). We play very tactically at a squad level with great communication and more than a little laughter.

    I whole-heartedly agree with Arithea's post above. Our forum is as much a presentation of the TG brand as our activities in-game. Our forums, much like our game servers, should be a beacon of light to those that find them.

    -Z.
    Last edited by Zoticus; 03-06-2012 at 05:33 PM.



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  13. #37

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    I refuse to take anyone that types in: against the primer, seriously. I have heard this line more the past 2 months than I have in my whole time here at TG, and it's always something like 'is the wall dodger blue, is it navy blue, or cornflower blue'. All I want to say say is that I have not once been let down by TG servers, not even once.

    If you don't enjoy the gameplay that's not because of loadouts. Whenever I play, I make sure I enjoy it, simple as that.
    ˝Memento audere semper˝



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  15. #38

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Lancer....not to be disrespectful....and maybe I am wrong, but with your entire argument don't you see that going completely against the primer? Also see what our acting GO has written below

    "And we're not going to let BF3's inherent lack of realism be an excuse for "anything goes".

    The players should immerse themselves in the world created by the game and not break the simulation by gaming the game, using exploits, or game engine shortcomings. In addition, the use of real-world tactics and strategies, is encouraged, expected, and even required. If you're not certain what this means, Tactical Gamer University is a great way to learn more. Suicide tactics will always be prohibited, as will bunny hopping, nascar driving and a variety of things that have no place in the simulation of modern armies that BF3 provides."
    Ven, re-read my post, then explain to me where I condoned any of the things you have described. Everything I outlined is an intentional function of the game engine.

    Having a scope lower than 6X on a Bolt Action Rifle is against the Primer?
    Having a Laser Sight mounted on a sniper or DMR, regardless of it's benefits, is against the Primer?
    Where in my post did I:
    -Condone suicide tactics?
    -Condone "abusive sniping"?
    -Condone leveraging engine exploits?
    -Condone or encourage non-primer behavior of any sort?

    For the record, Demize99, the DICE employee formerly in charge of weapons balance specifically stated that the Laser Sight is available on the sniper rifles to do exactly what I described. It is not an exploit, it is a direct, intentional function of the game.

    Let me make something clearer. Limiting what a kit is allowed and not allowed to equip is the complete WRONG way to deal with the "problem" of "abusive snipers." It is a PLAYSTYLE issue and not a KIT issue. Deal with it on a case by case basis because if we start limiting kit functionality, we won't find a place to stop.

    EDIT:

    Also, this whole issue with snipers doesn't seem to have many proponents. I'm only seeing a maximum of three people complaining about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix. View Post
    I refuse to take anyone that types in: against the primer, seriously. I have heard this line more the past 2 months than I have in my whole time here at TG, and it's always something like 'is the wall dodger blue, is it navy blue, or cornflower blue'. All I want to say say is that I have not once been let down by TG servers, not even once.

    If you don't enjoy the gameplay that's not because of loadouts. Whenever I play, I make sure I enjoy it, simple as that.
    THIS THIS THIS!!!! ^^^^^^^^ This a thousand times over!!!

    As far as I am concerned, and this goes for everybody, there is no more effective way to make yourself look like a jerk than to accuse another player of being "less-TG", "non-TG", or "Against the Primer." I encountered that attitude the first week I joined TG, and whenever it rears it's ugly head it pisses me off to no end. Nothing good ever comes of it.

    "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

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  17. #39

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by Battledragun View Post
    The armor is a simple fix, dumb the hps down on the armor just like we have so readily done to infantry and increase the spawn timer. The alternative would be to give ng's unlimited ammo since they run out of javelin's and rpg's, and the armor just keeps coming.
    I didn't know that this was an option. +1 to lowering the armor hps. Also, I believe that the lack of a commander and voip has made this modern warfare 4.

    ~seriousturtle
    TG21 Seriousturtle

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  19. #40



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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Let me try to gently nudge the thread back to the original post and intent:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Is everyone happy with the game play on our servers.....any of them?

    I want to know if this is a personal beef that I am getting (possibly getting crabby as I get older?), or if others feel as I do?

    On the vehicle server it just feels like your obliterated by vehicles. When you can kill them it "seems" like there back a minute later.

    On the wednesday infantry server it seems like cheesier weapons come out for easy kills.

    The one saving grace is when the armor server is at like 12 people.......the weapons for some reason are used correctly(and configured appropriately as they would be real world), and the armor isn't hammering you into the ground.

    Just looking for some feedback on this. I haven't been able to get the "TG" feel on our servers for these reasons for some time now and am just wondering if I'm alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectNA View Post
    I feel we have 10X more of these threads than we have real issues on the TG servers, I play on them quite often. My sense is the vocal minority are skewing the perception, but I could be wrong. Are admins really getting rampant reports about people using 'cheesy' tactics, or is it really a few upset individuals are posting on the same issues repeatedly?
    Let me answer a simple question with a really long answer directed at no one and everyone...

    I would say that generally speaking, you'd be surprised how little feedback we're getting.

    I know I've said this more than once: but this is your community. This isn't "TG's" community, or my community, or the admins community. This is the place where mature gamers can enjoy the games we play without the interference from the less-than-mature gamers, where there's respect for your fellow gamers and where we work together to advance the enjoyment of our hobby, where the focus of play is not solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging game engine exploits. (See what I did there?)

    That's it. That's our thing. That's what we do. If the community wants to settle for less than that, the admins can't save it.

    We're here to help you realize that environment, not to bring it about. We set the servers up the way we think will best support those ideas, but if players choose to abuse that environment, is that a setting problem or a player problem?

    So as far as setting up bolt action rifles for CQB, or running IRNV for daytime outdoors maps or whatever other silly things that people do, same thing, it's a player problem, not a gadget problem. I'll say that it's disappointing to see those people settling for less. They could be playing the game a better way, with other mature gamers, in the way described above, and they choose not to. I don't understand that mindset.

    The solution however is not to make rules against lasers on certain weapons, but to just talk to them, educate them, try to help them see the light. Or talk to us on Teamspeak or use the Contact an Admin forum, and we'll chat with them, or just PM any admin if you prefer.

    Just, don't settle.
    |TG-12th| fallen

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    Iamthefallen's Avatar

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Again, we can't lower armor HP or increase RPG damage.
    |TG-12th| fallen

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  23. #42

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by Battledragun View Post
    The armor is a simple fix, dumb the hps down on the armor just like we have so readily done to infantry and increase the spawn timer. The alternative would be to give ng's unlimited ammo since they run out of javelin's and rpg's, and the armor just keeps coming.
    I disagree with you on the grounds of indeed armor requires cooperation to be taken down and should be a menace to be dealt with. What I see usually from playing a lot lately in random servers is the fact players tend to be premature ejaculators regarding armor. I only open one exception, so far, when the other team gets you cornered (picture gulf of oman with only alpha left).
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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  25. #43


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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    I don't mean to drag this out (especially since Fallen has spoken) but feel like should respond to a few things. Keep in mind my original post was thrown together over a couple of hours when I could steal a minute or two away from clients. After rereading it, some points didn't come across as I had intended. Overall I was trying to address Ven's original post, relating it more towards password night as that is when I am able to play prime time more often than not.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectNA View Post
    This is confusing for me - are you saying that you are going to other servers to experience teamwork, communication and tactical play? Are you having a better experience in these three areas somewhere else???
    I probably should have prefaced this with a little more context. It is not necessarily where we are playing so much as how we are playing Project. A lot of those sessions have started in the morning or early-mid afternoon when there is no population on the TG servers. Once we hit a certain number the group usually migrates to the TG server's and seed. Since the new scripts are running this has made it more enjoyable as the maps are scaled to the player count. TG servers are where I always head, knowing that I will be getting a few good rounds in. The hit and miss aspect of it has more to do with being in a squad that might be full but no one else in TS. That is when I miss the the larger channel chatter of being able to work with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectNA View Post
    My opinion is some of these threads do more harm than any issues we have on the actual servers, but maybe I am the vocal minority.
    This is a good point and why I don't post that often. I guess I just picked a doozy of a thread to wiegh in on this time .
    Last edited by hil3illy; 03-06-2012 at 09:10 PM.

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  27. #44
    Ven
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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    well then....it appears it's me. Admin. Lock the thread as it's going nowhere now.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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  29. #45



    Iamthefallen's Avatar

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    Re: Input from TG BF3 players

    Quote Originally Posted by hil3illy View Post
    I don't mean to drag this out (especially since Fallen has spoken)
    Oh please continue, the basic question we started with: "Is everyone happy with the game play on our servers"

    Is a very important one.
    |TG-12th| fallen

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