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Discussion: Tactical / Battlefield 3 - eye opening - http://consumerist.com/2012/04/congr...-for-2012.html thoughts?
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    Ven
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    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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    Re: eye opening

    All I can say is wow.




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    Re: eye opening

    Have to agree, why should Bank of America hog the spotlight. Everybody knows they're bad. However why shouldn't consumers draw attention to the ever degrading business practices of companies like EA and Activision when it affects them.

    Hopefully it will give them at least a moments pause for thought, that is of course dependent on their being some level of institutional 'pride' other than simply pointing to a sales graph. I doubt they give a cr@p, which ironically, when you boil it down, is actually the root problem.

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    Re: eye opening

    well, they make valid points on how the new trend in large gaming companies is to nickel and dime consumers....which I don't think any of us can disagree with. I just wonder what made EA any worse than say Activision.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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    Re: eye opening

    Wow is an understatement....

    (warning generalization's appear in the following statement)
    This also is showing that the assumed 'gamer' demographic by the general public is probably older than they assume it is. I doubt this was a bunch of teens getting online and voting. If you watch some of the newer commercials for games/consoles/portable game devices the demographic has shifted to 20 somethings. This demographic hasn't experienced the financial hurt a bank can inflict, they have experienced it from the likes of EA.

    If you look at our forums, Reddit, almost anywhere online the negativity towards a game that we all play and enjoy is palpable. It is much easier to find threads/posts about why someone dislikes the game and how it is all EA/DICE's fault. I think this why Activision hasn't gotten the same attention right now. It is just less in people's faces.

    So a question that pops up in my mind is this: With 2 AAA titles released in the last 6 months that have garnered large sales figures with equally large and vocal communities that have complained a fair bit. How much of this dislike of EA is linked to these recent game release's?

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    Re: eye opening

    I dunno, I am pretty happy with EA. I don't fault a company for exploring different business models to increase profits for their shareholders. I don't see what they have done that is so terrible. They are running a company that was hit hard by the recession in 2007. They are not polluting the environment, or using highly questionable employment practices. They seem like a fairly normal large company to me.

    Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough! Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: eye opening

    This is a self selecting poll. So it doesn't necessarily represent the entire EA consumer population.

    But I think it does say that the population that hates EA enough to be bother to go to some site and show your hate is rather large.
    Im not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
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    Re: eye opening

    I agree Science, in the sense that "they have not polluted the environment" etc. However isn't the key issue here context. EA are very unlikely to pollute the Environment in the same way say Enron did. Bobby Kotick for example is not the "Worst person of 2011" for example, say when compared to a mass murderer. You can only really 'screw up' in your chosen field, and by default the effects of those actions are limited by the reach/impact that field has. Nothing EA has done has led to any physical harm, however in context many feel they are misleading and milking consumers and destroying franchises as they go. Within the context of the games industry that's a fairly serious accusation, though one I agree they don't deserve to face alone.

    However much one understands a companies 'aggression' with it's business model I don't think that necessarily excuses the fall out from it or the apparent disdain for the customer.

    I maintain that the Games Industry is a very immature business model where the largest companies fail to see their own shortcomings as producers of content due to several factors

    - A lack of any really collective memory as a consumer base, the consumer base constantly refreshes with the next group of console games purchasers, so no real fall out from treating customers badly
    - As such even bad games turn big numbers if you promote them hard enough
    - Art/Content being largely led by Sales Executives ultimately

    Conversely due to the previous 'bricks and mortar' basis of high street retail, content producers prepared to take risks and innovate were shouldered out of shelf space and doomed to failure. This in turn perpetuates the "there is no market for X (innovative) title, they just want "Call of Honour XXV: The return to the MeatGrinder Corridor: Voipless Premium Subscription Edition". Hopefully Digital Distribution will continue to combat this and Origin will continue to be a failure.

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    Ven
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    Re: eye opening

    I guess the thing I dislike is the content holding back. With both BC2 and BF3 there was content developed and part of the game.......yet we had to wait until they said we could use it and had to pay for it. My point is this. I paid 60$ for a game that was 12 gigs in size......yet I am only allowed to play 8.5 gigs worth of the game until you waive the magical "patch code" wand and let me play the remaining portion I already paid for. Not only do I have to wait to play it, I also have to pay for it when it was already part of the main game content I already paid for. Call me crazy but it just doesn't seem morally correct.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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    Re: eye opening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Call me crazy but it just doesn't seem morally correct.
    Nothing about capitalism seems morally correct when done right.

    Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough! Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: eye opening

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicks View Post
    However isn't the key issue here context. EA are very unlikely to pollute the Environment in the same way say Enron did. Bobby Kotick for example is not the "Worst person of 2011" for example, say when compared to a mass murderer. You can only really 'screw up' in your chosen field, and by default the effects of those actions are limited by the reach/impact that field has. Nothing EA has done has led to any physical harm, however in context many feel they are misleading and milking consumers and destroying franchises as they go. Within the context of the games industry that's a fairly serious accusation, though one I agree they don't deserve to face alone.
    The problem is that the poll encompasses all American companies and not just video game companies or entertainment companies. In that context, I think EA being labeled the worst company in America is a joke. People complain all day about EA's business practices and their creative direction, but many of those people continue to buy and play their games. If they really wanted to make a difference, instead of voting on an internet poll they should vote with their wallets and abstain from buying EA games.
    "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload




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    Re: eye opening

    Agreed Voodoo, I think you can look at it one of two ways, as a Company in their field being the standout worst in the opinion of those polled and as a company in comparison to all others irrespective of their potential real world impact. In that sense no Entertainment company would ever feature as they do little tangible harm. The treatment of their customers is somewhat subjective and dependent of your expectations as an individual.

    The issue with not purchasing X company's products is that the market trend over the past years has been for fewer and fewer alternatives to be available as they are simply demolished in aggressive acquisitions or forced out of business by the unproven market hypothesis that 'the consumer doesn't want innovation'. That theory is falsely borne out by misleading numbers and an ever replenishing consumer base, coupled with the "x innovative title" not selling because it is either not made or not promoted. Self fulfilling fail.

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    Re: eye opening

    EA has a bad image, and it is justified. There are many more serious crimes and violations that effect us as a whole which take priority, though it is worth pointing out in the gaming community. I will list an example of how 'evil' EA and another company have been in the past (this is all from 1st person experience and information directly from the developer and EA).

    We all know Crysis when it came out, and the amazing graphics. I think that most of us remember that was the time when the question of migration to Windows Vista was on everyone's mind as DirectX 10 was announced as Vista only. DirectX 10 was driving the enhanced visuals, transition of day/night transitions and advanced destruction of objects, and we were told that to achieve those visuals DirectX 10 and Vista would be required as it was impossible under Windows XP. All users must upgrade to Vista and DirectX 10 cards to realize those features.

    With that out of the way, I was involved in creating a game using the Crytek engine and we needed to implement those features. Official communications from the developer and EA was that is was possible to turn those advanced features on/off in DirectX 9 running under Windows XP with a simple true/false variable. So it turns out that Microsoft paid EA/Crytek to falsely create an issue requiring DirectX 10 so that more units of Vista could be pushed on gamers as Vista was floundering. They out-right lied to ALL customers on this fact. Evil? You bet!

    Edit: I should note for transparency, I have rejected offers from both for positions due to this kind of stuff.

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    Re: eye opening

    I have contacted EA customer support 3 times in my life. Each time they took a long time to take care of the issue, but they resolved it. They may not be as nice or competent as Dell or Microsoft paid tech support programs, but they are pretty decent compared to other customer support service. Try calling customer support for all the products in your home and then compare it to EA. EA looks pretty good compared... I think the thing that is making people mad is that EA is profit driven and has to work for their shareholders. I and many other customers out there would pay over $200 for bf3 and they know it. It drives them nuts thinking they are leaving money on the table. They make a great product, but people want don't want to pay that much for it. I think they should start charging for texture packs to make stuff look cooler. Like a deluxe model on a car with leather interior and an awesome stereo.

    Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough! Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: eye opening

    Very curious that one of the many faults listed by consumers was EA charging for additional game content, happened around the same time that EA posted all those Expansion unlocks for sale on Origin. I think the gaming companies are striving to reduce the cyclical nature of their business. Rather than just once a year (if that frequent, even) they release a major game. If they can release a major game, then release map packs, expansions, kit unlocks, etc. every few months, and count on a decent percentage of the population to purchase, they can spread the revenue throughout the year.

    This started on consoles I think, primarily... COD4 through MW3, Black Ops, it seems that every 6 months or so I'm having to add Microsoft points to my son's XBOX Live, so he can buy the latest map pack or expansion pack.

    I can see EA pushing this mode on the PC world, as much as they can - whatever the market will bear.

    While this may seem "evil" from the standpoint of us, as game consumers, it's exactly what I strive for in my consulting work. Websites, social media, advertising, etc. Sure, I love the initial big project, but what I really aim for is long-standing relationships - and long-term contracts for ongoing work.

    I'd like to think I'm not "evil" - just being a capitalist!


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