Hellfire Missiles from the chopper

**Tllyx** · 03-15-2010 06:14 PM

After testing the hellfire missiles for a short while, they seem to work just fine. You have to aim at items that are tracered for a short while before you fire the hellfire.

My hypothesis is that the range box display is bugged. For example, when you point an rpg at an enemy tank who is tracered, you have to wait about 3 seconds for it to lock on. Same thing with the hellfire missile in the chopper. It just doesn't show up.

I did tests where I immediately saw a tracered vehicle and fired the hellfire, it did not follow.

Every time I waited and fired, it followed from a long ways away. A very LONG ways away.

**Abel** · 03-15-2010 08:22 PM

It's the same when I lock on to infantry with a tracer dart attached..

The hellfire with tracer in the chopper seems to be a very deadly combo so far. I just wish it wasn't so hard to use the tracer as a secondary gunner. Or maybe I'm just bad at aiming..?

**Celestial1** · 03-15-2010 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Abel

It's the same when I lock on to infantry with a tracer dart attached..

Locking onto infantry with rocket launchers should show a range indicator.

In the helicopter, at least for myself (and apparently others), the range indicator doesn't show up at all.

**Zhohar** · 03-15-2010 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Abel

I just wish it wasn't so hard to use the tracer as a secondary gunner. Or maybe I'm just bad at aiming..?

Seems like I'm terrible at aiming too. I had a hell of a time tracing anything for Tilyx last night.

I can't wait for Arica Harbor to come out as Conquest. I'm anticipating two choppers per side. Fingers crossed.

**Britt** · 03-16-2010 03:09 AM

Be nice if Arica had all 4 different choppers on Conquest. That is quite a good map....although I think it will end up being just the city in Conquest mode.

God this game would be so much more awesome with more players in Conquest mode. As it is Conquest mode straight up feels empty. I guess the tech isn't there yet....but it would be cool to have 32 v 32...with Rush having 3 objectives per stage rather then two.

**Celestial1** · 03-16-2010 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Britt

I guess the tech isn't there yet

You're kidding, right?

**Britt** · 03-16-2010 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

You're kidding, right?

It chugs enough for me with everyone on one crate and a few smoke effects. I just think 32 v32 with the destruction and all the other effects would not run. Or at least that's why DICE didn't make it so...

**Celestial1** · 03-16-2010 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Britt

It chugs enough for me with everyone on one crate and a few smoke effects. I just think 32 v32 with the destruction and all the other effects would not run. Or at least that's why DICE didn't make it so...

Has nothing to do with anything. Graphics and network capability are two entirely different things. Just because you 'chug along' with your settings doesn't mean everyone else does, because it's just how the engine is... no, graphics is client side rendering (read: only screws with you) and doesn't affect the player limit (server/bandwidth/game coding issue). Networked objects (basically, anything dynamicly destroyable) present in any BFBC2 level at one time is SO much lower than BF2's limit it's not even funny.

If they could handle 64 players in BF2 and BF2142, why do you think they would lower player count?

I'll give you a hint: they don't use mice and keyboards.

**Evo<^|SiNz|^>** · 03-18-2010 08:58 PM

The problem for me (I think) is that the crosshairs on the UAV are just very hard to position accurately over the target box. It seems like there's very little margin for error, and if you're straffing with the UAV it makes it that much harder to hold the crosshair over the reticule box.

**Britt** · 03-18-2010 10:06 PM

I'm sorry, I just find it hard to believe that all the destructible environments and the physics effects, which presumably affect everyone, aren't limiting the player count. Like, server resources that could be used for extra slots are instead rendering the environments and such.

Obviously the maps are best with low player count, although I think Panama Canal and Atacama Desert would work with more. I know BC2 is a console port, believe me.

So do you think BF3 will have BF sized maps, 32v32 at least, and destructible environments?

**Celestial1** · 03-19-2010 04:02 PM

Destructible environments and physics effects are not new to gaming. Heck, even the Refractor2 engine (used in BF2) had the ability for semi-destructible environments and physics. Check out Project Reality, it has quite a few maps where destructible buildings were implemented. BFBC2 has destructible trees as well, but even with all that, more often than not PR has had more destructible buildings in maps than BFBC2 has trees and destructible buildings.

Server's don't render environments at all. Your computer does that. The server transmits information between players (Hey server, I'm here at X:60, Y:40... Okay, everybody, Celest is at X:60, Y:40, so go ahead and make sure that you put him there on your screen), and transmits information regarding dynamic objects (This building health=0, render it as destroyed, everybody).

Your computer's Graphics Card takes information from the game files (hey, there's trees here... and a hill here) and renders it to your screen. Your CPU usually determines physics and other physical effects. Everything that you would see in single player is your own computer rendering it; the same applies with multiplayer: only players and objects being destroyed are actually handled by the server. The server also handles many other things, such as VOIP, what map is being played, the flag/M-COM status...

As for BF3, it depends on how much DICE sells out and how long they take/what engine they use. It should be 64 player max with semi-destructible environments, at the very least, and 128 players with fully destructible environments at best. But that all depends on a variety of factors like them trying to release it for consoles and dumbing it down for them again.

**Evo<^|SiNz|^>** · 03-19-2010 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

Server's don't render environments at all. Your computer does that. The server transmits information between players (Hey server, I'm here at X:60, Y:40... Okay, everybody, Celest is at X:60, Y:40, so go ahead and make sure that you put him there on your screen), and transmits information regarding dynamic objects (This building health=0, render it as destroyed, everybody).

It isn't really that simple, though. The server has to handle the physics for every destructible object, since all scenery must be consistent for every player in the server. You're right that the client GPU does the heavy lifting in rendering what the damaged objects look like, but the vast scale of destructible objects in this game means that the server is doing a lot more work than just keeping track of where everyone is, and what they're doing. It's also keeping how each player is damaging each object, and since there are several variations on how damage is reflected in the world, it obviously increases the number of possibilities it needs to be aware of exponentially. If you can find me an FPS game that has this scale of moving parts that have to be sync'ed between every player in the server, I'd love to hear it.

**Abel** · 03-19-2010 05:34 PM

OK,..

Lets see if we can't stroll back too the subject the thread was ment too be about..

I'm wondering if the gunner should use the alt fire and trace tanks or improved warhead for the extra punch.. I'm learning too use the tracer but I still missed 30% of my shoots with the tracer.. Anyone have a good idea about what too use perk-wise.

**Celestial1** · 03-19-2010 05:39 PM

Well, as I was posting Abel posted his insightful back-on-topic question. I put my off-topic response in quotes below, PM me if you want to discuss it any further.

I think a lot of what people aren't realizing is that you have to use reverse-lead when firing from the helicopter. If the helicopter is moving forward, you're going to want to aim further downwards to hit something in front of you, or further to the left if you're trying to hit something to the left of you.

I've not gotten to gun in a helicopter before (mostly piloting), but I assume that this is the #1 reason why tracers are missing.

Originally Posted by Me

No, I understand it's not just that simple. I'm simplifying it to show the scope of things. The server handles a lot, that is true.

But static-destruction (buildings, trees) isn't all server-side physics in BC2. Every hole in a wall in BC2 is pre-determined and has a 'health' value. Once that 'health' reaches 0, it instantly changes to the 'destroyed' state; any debris and otherwise is handled client-side, I believe; none of that is vital for every client to match, because it doesn't cause deaths and it doesn't have any importance other than visually.

Keeping this idea in mind, PR does the exact same thing, on the BF2 Refractor engine.

Even tree parts don't remain once they are separated from the stump.

**Abel** · 03-19-2010 06:30 PM

You are correct sir.. And often I overcompensate but with a little more practice I'll get a hang of it.. The really hard thing too do is hitting a tracer at high speed while the tank is moving away from you too the right or left:P

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