KillDaddy

In light of recent incidents and player reports, I think we should all take a minute and reflect on what the T stands for in TG. That's right. Tactical. Lately it seems that our servers are turning more run and gun than tactical and I am not pleased by this at all.

We all need to work on playing tactically as a team and not rushing around to get killed. Defenders should be defending objectives, not out hunting for attackers.

We need to slow down and remember that we aren't your average run of the mill pub server, where the only thing people seem to be interested in is their Kill:Death ratio.

Here at TG, we should strive to work as a team to achieve victory for our team.

Also, remember that the bomb carrier becomes the commanding officer once the round begins. What he/she says goes. Ignoring the bomb carrier can and will result in a kick.

I've seen people say that CoD4 is more arcade-like and thus the action is faster so we should accept it. I don't see that as true. The game is what you make it and all of us at TG should be here for the tactics and teamwork, not to run around killing as many people as we can. If that's what you are looking for, there are thousands of pub servers out there to accommodate you. TG is not about that kind of experience.

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Size12point5

Size agrees with KD. Defense: It's hard to protect your home when you are out roaming the streets. Offense: Strength comes in numbers.

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SloppyJoe

*click*

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HAZMAT

I agree totally...

comma (,)

long dramatic pause (_______________________)


Server 1 will most likely never been a true tactical sim. The standard H/C S&D just doesnt support it. You can force a square peg into a round hole and thats what Server 1 is doing for us. Do you realize before when Server 1 was vanilla & Server 2 had more people on it with TRM?

I point that out because I feel that Server 1 should be H/C Mix mode and Server 2 stays TRM. That TRM mod really forces teamwork and slows play style down and the first to die are always the rushers. And if you try to throw or plant anything before 20secs you may just loose them! How sweet is that!!??

I agree everyone needs to take a look at their play-styles but with the recent in flux of new players and new |TG| tag wearing people the run and gun mind set is still very strong. How can we curb that? Admins spending more time being admins than playing? HARD TO DO! But what about allowing the 13th to keep its own house clean?

I have seen IHS running and gunning because thats what the server has turned into on a few occasions when there werent any admins around. Frustrating and I normally bail and go read a book or watch some Frisky Dingo. I have sat back and watched new players come in and have no concept what our community is about and then get away with some serious asshatery only to be told by an admin in the following map that I am not playing tactically by not staying to a certain spot on the map where he thinks I should be defending from.

I love the community and the playing on the servers. I also know that they cant be enforced by an admin 24-7. I have come to terms with that and I will continue playing here. We really need to enforce our Community Primer. Lets play tactically!

And by that I feel Server 2 should be the TACTICAL small unit based operations where Server 1 is a mixed bag of whatever.

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|TG-13th|HAZMAT

SmokingTarpan

Here's my take, and I'm assuming that you're talking about Server 1 (non-mod).

Concerning TG regulars/veterans. I think our TG players are good stock overall, but I see two extremes that cause problems. The first extreme are the players that push the rules to just a half hair shy of breaking them. The second extreme are the players that are ready to cry foul at the drop of a hat, even when no rule has been violated (I've stopped counting the warnings/rebukes I've received for violations, such as blind nades, that never actually happened). Neither extreme helps gameplay whatsoever. I think the TG players need to follow both the letter and the spirit of the (mostly quite good) rules we have, and knock off the abundance of, "I got killed, someone must have broken a rule," thoughts.

Concerning a messy server over the past few days. Yesterday and today I saw probably two dozen brand new faces on the server that basically were the complete cause of the chaos. For every one new face that loves the TG style of play and adheres to it, there's 10 other new faces that will ignore the rules until they're banned. I know a lot of admin calls/posts were made in the past two days because the gameplay turned to crap with the new faces.

I really think a lot of our recent problems comes from a combination of new faces that are asshats and one of the two extremes of the TG player.

I disagree that the game needs to be slowed down, and I sigh every time I hear this about a game that TG takes on (which is most of the time). Killdaddy, as you said, Tactical Gamer is about tactics and teamwork. I don't see where it says that TG is about slowing things down, or that tactics and teamwork are only achievable through slow(er) play. I used to run and play on a CS:S server that everyone here would classify as run and gun. Amazingly though, everyone played as a team toward the objective and communicated in a very tactical way. In fact, there are TG nights with veteran players that would be embarrassed in comparison. As you said, the game is what we the players make of it- so why force some artificial slow-down? Pound it into people's heads that they need to obey the rules, work tactically as a team and communicate, yes. But don't tell people that the only way it's possible to be tactical is to be slow. If people desired slow, careful, high attention to detail play, that's what the mod server is for, yes?

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

Long Bow

Well said KillDaddy.

Tarpan while I see where your coming from alot of the current bickering and rule bending is a result of players quick pace. If TG players are always moving at high speed we are setting the example to all the new players.

If we as TG players slow down a bit, communicate that we need to take our time approaching a bomb site and keep re-enforcing it the server as a whole should reduce its pace. If we can do that, people that are simply running ahead on their own will stand out and can be dealt with. As it currently is its very hard to figure out who is communicating with their team and working towards a goal and who is simply an army of one. I think we can all agree that sometimes you need a fast attack or certain players to fill a fast advancing role. However we don't need a whole team, every round, doing that.

Slowing down the pace is simply one way we are giong to try and enhance the experince on the server. It may not work but the current high speed game isn't working either. Lets give it a try and see how it goes

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SmokingTarpan

The thing is, though, that the current game is not actually high speed; it's actually quite far from it. From what I hear (I haven't and won't play the mod server), it's definitely higher speed than the mod server. But I've played on high-speed servers and trust me, even at our current pace, TG isn't fast.

The chief problems we face are rule breaking and lack of communication (which leads to lack of tactics). Neither of these is caused by higher speed games (although higher speed might exacerbate the issues), nor will forcing people to slow down to a crawl fix the issues. If someone is going to throw a grenade early, or blindly spam smoke, it won't matter if we're on turtle or rabbit setting. If people aren't going to communicate, they're not going to communicate whether the match lasts one minute or ten.

I like the current pace of play on Server 1. What I don't like are the people that don't talk and don't follow the rules. Forcing people to crawl down streets or flashbang every room isn't going to make Wonder Bob the Mic-less Bomb Carrier change his approach; only telling him to shape up and kicking him if he refuses will do so. If you want a slower game, there's the mod server.

Please, don't tunnel-vision TG into being a place where there's only one very thin line that you can walk and call it "proper play style", and the slightest deviation is cursed as "run and gun". I joined TG because of the maturity and teamwork, not because I desired to play 20 copies of the exact same game, just with different graphics. Sadly, more and more I'm getting the feeling that TG and I are headed down different roads these days.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

HAZMAT

I would say you just might need a break.

I was getting that vibe too. And I have only been a paying members since November.

I would say go play a few mixed mode servers or some free for all servers to work on those quick twitch muscles. I have been doing that for a few days and I am very relieved to come back to server 1 just to hear people actually using their VOIP for conversations for more than just boobies or name calling.

I would also like to point out that Server 1 is fun but the players are who make it tactical. Server 2 is tactical and forces players to play it that way or die a quick and painful death.

Either way YOU are the only one who can make the game TRULY tactical.

Tarpan, dont go down the other fork of the road just yet. Like I said play some other servers , shoot even try Server 2, and if you really want nostalgia come check out the COD2 server. I had a blast playing there last night and was having silenced G3 withdrawals for a few maps but got used to the game and was doing pretty good.

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|TG-13th|HAZMAT

Size12point5

I can't stand the gameplay of 99% of the other servers. It is good for a quick DM fix but, man, it's annoying. It's like playing every single game in a mine field. Stuff flying everywhere and nobody knows who is doing what. Irritating. Even a bad night on TG is better than a good night on another SD server. IMHO.

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8 bits

I second that! Third, fourth, and even fifth it!

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|TG-13th| 8 bits

SmokingTarpan

Oh, I've poked around on different servers. When Server 1 here is full, I have one or two that I can waste time on for a while. I've actually only been back playing CoD4 for about a month now really.

The reason why I question if I'm diverging from the TG road is thus. I joined the community at the BF2 demo release because I loved how I could play with other players that actually talked and worked as a team. The change that TG initially made to the game (that everyone loved) was to have some good ground rules and teamplay that were enforced vigorously by admins and players alike. After so many months of squad leading and such, I eventually got burned out and stopped playing BF2, and wasn't all that active in TG anymore (mostly played WoW).

Fast forward a year and some change, and I'm back here playing CoD4. And there's one thing that crops up constantly in several game forums that I've read. One server or another starts having some player problems, and the solution given always seems to be, "let's slow the game down." As I said before, slowing things down will not stop people from breaking the rules or not communicating, which is almost always the two problems that seem to instigate the call for a "slow-down". Only a solid player community and higher admin presence for smacking down the real violators will fix the problems.

It's not that I desire to go out and lone wolf or anything silly like that. It's more that I know I approach games here with the exact same playstyle that was accepted and praised when I first joined TG- but that playstyle apparently is no longer good enough/what the community desires. I truly dislike the thought that great communication and teamwork can have its tactical value declared null and void because someone decided it happened too fast for their taste.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

TG_Bubba

The big thing ST is the fact that the maps are small. Last night on the TRM server we have big maps. You can not just rush into the objective from both sides. We had some awesome comms which actually slowed the pace down and gave us time to work the tactics. It was probably for me anyway the most enjoyable night I had in a long time.

One other thing is comparing CoD 4 to BF2 or any other game. Those were squad based games. Here we do not have the individual squads, just one big mass of folks. That being said it is hard for someone to take command when others have their own idea of what they are going to do or they are chasing stats.

Play the TRM server once and see the difference. I am sure it will peak your interest.

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Admin

Graw 2-- Call of Duty

TG_Mateo: "Forget freedom, democracy, the blues, New York Pizza: our lasting contribution to human society is Bourbon."
Sloppy Joe: "Don't play this game like you are on your own, because if you do... it might become a reality."
kin3: "I'll try but I have the grandchildren all day today and if I'm not wiped out I'll play."

Long Bow

Tarpan all I was trying to point out is that people rushing head long is not tactical and is not the TG way. There is a time and a place for rushing, every single round though is excessive. Early nades is another, but seperate, issue that we need to be on top of.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a turtles pace. All we're trying to work towards is people moving up as a team. There are roles that call for flanking and speed still. We just don't need 75% of the team with their shift keys tapped down

Be sure to check out the TRM server. Last night was great fun.

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SmokingTarpan

Which is just one more reason why we should be adapting to the game, not forcing it to adapt to us. Is our approach to teamwork and communication so fragile that we throw it out the window when map sizes shrink or people move faster?

On Server 1, there is a maximum of 9 players on a team; that's not far different from 6 players per squad on BF2 (and isn't the squad size increased for PR?). If we were talking about 20 people per team, I could agree with you- but we're really talking about squad on squad combat here. As a squad leader in BF2, I had to regularly deal with people wanting to do their own thing. The only difference here is that I can't boot them from my squad if they tick me off. :P

For my part, I try to pick up the bomb and talk as much as possible so that I can direct traffic (even though I don't like taking the bomb, heh). What I believe would be a big help (aside from increased communication) would be a 10-15sec freeze timer at the start of each round, if that was possible, to allow a general plan/approach to be made. This would probably be the only "slow-down" that I could say would be a good thing.

Well, by all accounts the TRM server is slower and more careful, and I've already said I don't want that. I simply want to see more communication and teamplay on Server 1 as it is now. You know, more of those, "man was last night great games!" nights.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

Long Bow

The pre round timer is something thats being looked into however it may not be possible. It would be great and allow certain players to play the fast roles and certain players to move up slower. In the end though they woud be doing it as a team.

Don't be fooled into thinking server 2 TRM is really slow. It can be fast paced. However with the larger maps there isn't as much incentive to rush head long into battle as the small maps seem to cater to. Your team usually has more options/time for tactics and lateral movement. Plus playing on a map that you don't know every single nook, cranny and sniper nest in really makes for intense games. Much less cookie cuter play.

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