20 sec restrictions

**LpBronco** · 07-02-2008, 03:17 PM

For the most part this is being followed in the two servers:

No nades, tubes, rpg's, C4 (all the explosive class weapons)

I'd like everyone to consider an additional 20 sec restriction:

SNIPING

To often this is being abused at the start of each round to cap a quick cheap kill as the offense or defense is deploying and last night I got dropped on the bombsite 4 secs into the round. It just doesn't match the spirit of the games we play and of course you can tell me which bombsite you were protecting even though I'd challenged neither.

Also, just because the offense hasn't shown up when you expect is no reason to push out farther than the buildings on Bloc. Defense is to defend that doesn't include abandoning your objective to close the maps off.

If everyone is serious about running a tactical game then you'll realize that some planning time is needed and the immediate choke points don't change whether we take 30 seconds or 3 minutes to reach them.

**Capt. Obvious** · 07-02-2008, 03:52 PM

thats a good idea locking snipes with the firiey death bombs

**G-House** · 07-02-2008, 04:02 PM

think about it this way, if you were smart enough to run into a sniper lane at the beginning, you deserve to get sniped, just take it slow and not run into those lanes, everywhere i snipe is within rules, everyone has situational awareness, and not allowing snipers is kinda making it too much of a rule based server rather than a play based server. just send out a counter sniper and let them duel until something happens, thats reality for you. i personally think we need to crack down on run and gun much more that sniping problems,

**TGslacker** · 07-02-2008, 04:08 PM

while there are few things i hate more than being sniped quickly, this can easily be countered by two things:

Following the no spawn-shooting/sniping rule (say, no shooting into enemy spawn for 10 seconds? good rule?)

Using smoke on maps that you can be shot quickly on, such as Overgrown

**Capt. Obvious** · 07-02-2008, 04:10 PM

pipe line is where the problem is cuase you never know which sniper position is going to be taken and some of the positions can be see over smoke (B-side rooftop)

**SmokingTarpan** · 07-02-2008, 04:19 PM

I understand the frustration that comes with getting shot right away, but I think that a no sniping for 20sec rule is too much. That's basically telling someone that they're not allowed to play for the first 20sec of any map, especially if they're not carrying two primary weapons. Besides, while it sucks pretty bad to be sniped right away, I'd contend that just as many people get killed from other guns within the first 20sec as well. That would bring us eventually to a "you can't do anything but run around" rule.

I think the best bet we can have is the no spawn shooting/sniping rule, and hope people decide to work more as a team instead of like crazy chickens. Crazy chickens... with guns.

**gijoe** · 07-02-2008, 04:27 PM

Personally i strongly agree with blocking cheap sniper kills for the first 20 seconds. As im sure most of you have seen, i complain alot...mostly about snipers. I among im sure dozens of others have been sniped in the first 10 seconds of the round when they are 15 feet from the spawn but not in it. I am all for going with the rules but sometimes people push the rules so hard that its not breaking but almost bending. This is what the line is supposed to look like | this is what it looks like now ( Clearly it is bent. Unless your eyes are going insane.

What im trying to say is that blocking snipers for 20 seconds is a great idea. It may even decrease the ammount of run and gun because no one needs to run as fast as they can to get away from a sniper. Specifically on that city street one. (with the flowershop). On offense, you have to run across that street to the A bombsite. That is where the sniper rule would come in handy.I have been killed countless times on that street before the 20 seconds is up. WITH SMOKE! If there is no sniper pointing their rifles at the offense, we may not need to sprint to the middle area of A and spray everyone in there. I think it would slow things down.

But thats just me

**machowner** · 07-02-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

"you can't do anything but run around" rule.

I think a setup time would be perfect for the type of server we want to have. I get tired of seeing most of the team die within 1 minute of the start.

**Dead_Meat** · 07-02-2008, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by gijoe

What im trying to say is that blocking snipers for 20 seconds is a great idea. It may even decrease the ammount of run and gun because no one needs to run as fast as they can to get away from a sniper. Specifically on that city street one. (with the flowershop). On offense, you have to run across that street to the A bombsite. That is where the sniper rule would come in handy.I have been killed countless times on that street before the 20 seconds is up. WITH SMOKE! If there is no sniper pointing their rifles at the offense, we may not need to sprint to the middle area of A and spray everyone in there. I think it would slow things down.

But thats just me

that particular area running across to bombsite A you can take the back, route thru the building also a lot of deaths i've seen are due to bad smoke coverage whrere the snipers see you run into the smoke.
now i also shoot at that area with a G3 so do we ban it for 20 seconds as well?
then what about an M4 or M14 or AK, how about and agoc on a scorpion.
or do we just have to have a 20 second period at the begining of the round to run knives only?

**Melee** · 07-02-2008, 06:41 PM

Lots of sarcastic commentary here...

I also despise the early sniper kills as a team leaves it's spawn area, but I think it's better to live with the possibility rather than add another rule. The best snipers can be countered with well placed smoke...and lots of it.

**SmokingTarpan** · 07-02-2008, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Melee

Lots of sarcastic commentary here...

I think it's less sarcastic than you may believe. At least my comments were.

The main theme (as I see it) seems to be that it sucks to have people dying just a few seconds into the round. The problem I have with restricting sniping until after 20sec is that people are just as likely to get killed within the first few seconds by any other weapon that also fires bullets. If you're going to restrict one weapon type for 20sec, you might as well restrict them all really. I don't see that happening.

I think the REAL problem is more a matter of teamwork and smart play rather than snipers in particular. I don't think we have any map in the rotation now where the teams can see each other from their respective spawns (including Showdown); there has to be at least a minimal amount of movement to gain visibility. If a person is getting sniped/shot with the first few seconds, chances are that there is something they could have done differently to have avoided that fate.

**LpBronco** · 07-02-2008, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by G-House

think about it this way, if you were smart enough to run into a sniper lane at the beginning, you deserve to get sniped, just take it slow and not run into those lanes, everywhere i snipe is within rules, everyone has situational awareness, and not allowing snipers is kinda making it too much of a rule based server rather than a play based server. just send out a counter sniper and let them duel until something happens, thats reality for you. i personally think we need to crack down on run and gun much more that sniping problems,

Situational awareness should not include prescience which is the specific attacks I'm talking about. Sniper sets up immediately to catch the opposing team leaving spawn esp when the choices are limited. Intelligence should be shared but unless fired on the shot held.

**Grieg** · 07-02-2008, 08:13 PM

I see the problem of being sniped early as a problem that has in-game solutions. (Smoke, better use of cover, counter-snipers, etc...) As such, I don't see the need for a rule concerning this, beyond what we already have in place.

What I *DO* see as a problem, is the loose definition of "spawn area". Some people consider it the general area around where people spawn. Others consider it to be the actual 10' x 10' area where you spawn.

On the latter, that definition is fine on most maps; however, I believe that on maps such as Pipeline, a broader coverage of protected area would be beneficial to game play and the enjoyment of the map.

For example, would something like this be better?

**amu107.9** · 07-02-2008, 08:32 PM

That area you propose is a pretty big interpretation ,Grieg.
I would half that size you are proposing.

There already is a spawn sniping/shooting rule.
If someone is not following this then you need to report it so the perpetuation of this infraction does not occur.

So far I can see a valid gripe not a reason. You can as many have suggested throw some smoke to cover you, setup a countersniper or shooter or just avoid an area you know a sniper is looking at.

**G-House** · 07-02-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Grieg

What I *DO* see as a problem, is the loose definition of "spawn area". Some people consider it the general area around where people spawn. Others consider it to be the actual 10' x 10' area where you spawn.

i agree with this statement, i think we need to go further on to each map about this point...spawn is not defined in the new rules, and needs to be