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Discussion: Call of Duty Archives / Call of Duty 4 - General Discussion - More Indepth Plans - I think we should have more indepth plans than just a simple "rush A" or
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09-14-2008, 01:22 AM #1
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More Indepth Plans
I think we should have more indepth plans than just a simple "rush A" or "lets go B". It would be nice to extend the time for each round by 1 minute so that that minute can be used to formulate a plan that i beleive should be more tactically setup. This is also not just for offense, defense should form a plan or a type of a formation in that 1 minute that they can use to counter-attack. This to me would make this server even more tactical than ever and would really get people to plan their attacks rather than just rushing. Now i do beleive that every now and then a rush is a very good option depending on the map but when you really get people to put to it then they can become a very good squad leader with an excellent plan. Defense can form up a very good formation that can be easily resetup if one or 2 of their teammates go down in a firefight. Im just wondering if anyone here would agree with me that this would show what tactical gamer is all about to the newer people who join the server and are curious about us. Some people do not appreciate the rule system that we run here but i have seen several people that come here do some hunting but when they are told of the rules they start to follow those rules and eventually they themselves become TGs. Please consider this as a way to further the idea of Tactical Gaming.
We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction
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09-14-2008, 02:16 AM #2
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Re: More Indepth Plans
Sounds like a good idea to me Chief, but the oft-talked about factor is map size. Most maps on server 1 are too small to make effective defensive boundaries. However, extending the map time and allowing 1 minute for strategizing definitely does have potential to make gameplay deeper. I'm sure that having that one minute would be Bronco's dream. I love listening to his in-depth plans.
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09-14-2008, 02:17 AM #3
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Re: More Indepth Plans
yeah i hear ya Bronco has some sick plans that usually work. as of late half of mine fail and the others succeed, but im gettin better. The key is to use your teammates kits to your advantage. The kit they specialize in is gonna help, but a team full of snipers is gonna be hard to complete plans with
Last edited by Chief1122; 09-14-2008 at 02:36 AM.
We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction
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09-14-2008, 02:54 AM #4
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Re: More Indepth Plans
I think for more in depth plans the time limit would need to be upped a few minutes. Id say at least 1 or 2. My practice server is set at 10. Seems like more than enough time lol. But I agree. Ive been trying to get stacks on doors going but i always seem to get shot before i get that far lol. Good idea chief. Oh and your sig quote a marine unit did that in Korea it was a retreat to the rear to advance on an enemy pretty bright for jar heads lol.
Sorry I only play Hardcore!
Pain and suffering are inevitable, misery is not!
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09-14-2008, 03:00 AM #5
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Re: More Indepth Plans
haha lol
We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction
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09-14-2008, 12:18 PM #6
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Re: More Indepth Plans
First, the maps are way too small for "extensive planning operations".
Second, the server max allowed player limit would need to be dropped by 6 or 8 (3 to for per team) to support the true tactical squad based atmosphere you are discussing.
Third, I would support adding at least a minute to each round but I would also add 30seconds to initial spawn time to allow for discussion of a plan.
Finally, mind sets have to be changed first before any of this works. The main mentality remains and can't be changed:
RUSH FROM SPAWN AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO GET THE CHOICE POSITIONS!
Help me find a way to eliminate this mentality from this game and you have solved the main problem with this game. But again each map is so small that it promotes that behavior.
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09-14-2008, 01:06 PM #7
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Re: More Indepth Plans
Yes i agree, but we can do this on Server 2 i did not mean this to be for only Server 1. Server 2 maps are pretty big.
We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction
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09-14-2008, 03:52 PM #8
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Re: More Indepth Plans
what about utalizing some of the custom maps...i am a reg in CS:S we still have our set three or four maps that we have in rotation to bring in "fresh" blood (i.e. office) is there a possiblity of using custom maps...
i find that using such maps would almost make it a nesecity to plan...bigger maps mean larger AO, Lager AO means you just cant go ramboing in there....i think this server has great possibilities....but it needs tweaked ever so slightly IMO. I think that the server admins do a fantastic job, i have even taken some of the clases that they offered through TGU which really helped me as a new player, i have been playing recently and i have heard little to no comms on my teams and "simple" plans....rush a rush b and the like...
and with a solution with changing the mind set...start kicking people...the more you kick to get the meassage across the more people are going to learn that that such behavior is not going to be tolerated, i know that means a greater influex in admin presence but that only depends on the taged (TG) people uderstand and spreading the word. along with the fresh pubbies that come in
so in conclusion....maybe a change in the scenery (maps) are in order....it helps with the influx of pubbies not wating to adhere to our rules and it might just help with planing phases, i have been apart of no-such plans that involved succes orther than in the TRM mod....Lets put some effort in to plans my friends (bad pun @ McCain) and start utalizing teamwork!!!
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09-14-2008, 06:29 PM #9
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Re: More Indepth Plans
This idea has been bantered around until cream would have turned to cheese. The run mentality is hard to break because if you don't, they do!
I've even found myself complaining that I end up running to keep them from running, what an idiot of an excuse. Slackers' defense is amazing and still after a minute or two a couple of players have to run out(only to be gunned down) so you can see how ingrained the mentality.
But, even with that mindset, I have seen squad leaders who took control of their teams and led them to some of the most memorable rounds. We don't have to add more freeze time or extra time to the clock. What we do have to do is recognize chain of command and work within the structure of the tactic planned. This is also a rule and one I intend to spend more time enforcing.
This is presently more difficult on defense, and I might add an on going discussion by the admin team, but I suggest that each map someone new steps up and TAKE command, he remains in command unless there is a popular recall and a new commander selected. So for example I step up and say everyone pull the pins on their frags and rush the enemy, the team can respond with heck no, Chief, what do you want us to do?...
As far as larger maps on server 1, can't happen and server 2 addresses this issue. Server 1 is a ranked hard core server and must maintain the stock maps even if it doesn't use them all. Server 2, thanks to the hard work of Bubba with some assistance from HAZMAT and Drona is constantly play testing new maps to make sure they conform to our standards and keeping the server fresh. So, if your looking for a slower more thoughtful game, server 2 is at your disposal. Its also notable, a lot of the tactics you see on server 1 start out on server 2.
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09-14-2008, 08:39 PM #10
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Re: More Indepth Plans
Until there's a way to add a freeze time at the beginning of each round, I think what we have now is fairly close to the best we're going to get. It's really in the hands of the offense as far as the pace of the game. The offense can arguably sit back and take their time to plan, choose tactics (though a dug-in defense will become a problem). The defense really can't because there's no reason to believe that just because they sit still to plan that the offense will as well.
I'd be against adding time to the round timer. At times it can really seem like we have far too much time in the rounds (*cough* creek *cough*, but I'm fine with it as is. Adding more won't help the problem in my opinion; I've never heard anyone say, "You know, I'd really love to do something other than rushing, but we only have like 7 minutes to get the job done."
[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo
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09-14-2008, 11:00 PM #11
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Re: More Indepth Plans
GET RID OF THAT MINDSET OR DIE SOLDIER!!?!?!? No? would work for me.
Originally Posted by HAZMAT
Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?
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09-15-2008, 02:31 AM #12
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Re: More Indepth Plans
I find another big problem is that when the server ISN'T full of vet players, the new pubbies ignore any VOIP (many have it disabled) and/or don't want to play with a possibly self-sacrificing strategy. Sure, this isn't the right server for them, but unless we have admins kicking 15 players an hour, it will never be the way we want it to be.
The reasons why some of the more absurd strategies work (Slacker Defense, etc.) is because they are:
-Executed at times that only regular SMs are playing
-Are fun
and, here's the kicker...
-Are extremely EASY and SIMPLE to do
Chief had a good idea on Bloc and several other maps, but they were simply too complex for the players. Slacker D, at least originally, consisted of this:
"Hey guys, everyone go inside the A courtyard at Downpour and hide! If they go A, we kill them, and if they go B, we all flank and defuse!"
That is NOT complicated, does not require mass organization, and doesn't make anyone sacrifice themselves. I think if we spend time in this thread coming up with simple, FUN, easily explained and executed strategies, we might be able to actually implement them in the 3 seconds before everyone sprints off on their, er... well, you know... uh...
Slacker rushes.
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09-15-2008, 12:17 PM #13
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Re: More Indepth Plans
It worked for the Viet Cong time and time again.
Also, breaks up the regular RUN and GUN to contact mentality.
One of the best times I had on defense in a long time.
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09-15-2008, 04:13 PM #14
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Re: More Indepth Plans
i agree with chief that we should have more time to plan an attack or defense. Sometimes when someone grabs the bomb and says "Go B" it really isn't that big of a plan. Of course sometimes when most of the team is dead someone comes up with a plan while they are dead and discusses it for next round. These plans work sometimes other times they don't. I like it when we talk and dicuss a plan in detail telling people to go snipe or rush etc. Like last night on Pipeline my team had a very good idea that involved a quick rush into B building with guys going up top and some going tunnels and even one making noise at A. That plan worked very well. Other times they don't like the plan we tried on Crossfire trying to smoke the entire road and rush down to the defenses spawn. This plan we tried twice I think and both we failed miserably. But I still like the idea of trying something different. I really hate it when the bomb carrier says go A and maybe four teammates go B. Unless told otherwise I always go with the bomb carrier or at least most of the time I do. And what happens to the people who don't do what the bomb carrier does well they sometimes end up alone against tough odds.
"Semper paratus, Semper fidelis, Semper validus, Insquequo mortalitas."
"Incoming fire has the right of way."
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09-15-2008, 06:16 PM #15
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Re: More Indepth Plans
The plans dont have to be extremely complex. Slackr mentioned a plan i had on Bloc which was a leap frog movement that had the guys goin B shootin into A and the guys goin A shootin into B it was simple and it nearly worked except i forgot that we need to take into consideration what people are best with.
We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction
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