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02-23-2009, 01:04 AM #1
Server 2: Friendly positions on map
I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to bring it up for conversation again... after a couple of nights of really enjoyable server 2 gaming, I feel like a way to improve play would be to remove the positions of friendlies on the Esc map. I don't know if it's even possible with OWM, but if it was it would be great.
I just love the feeling of never knowing exactly who you've got left alive, or where they are. It would really place an emphasis on communication and teamwork.
Is there anyone else who agrees with me? Could we try it out for a couple of weeks? Looking forward to hearing comments.





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02-23-2009, 01:41 AM #2
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
i haven't played for some time but it sounds like a pretty good idea to me. i think it will enhance coms. instead of bringing up the map and then shooting the guy, you can inform your team that you've spotted a target on a location. if its an enemy then the team now knows the position an enemy soldier and will take further action to do what ever is necessary in order to reach their objective or goal.
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02-23-2009, 11:41 AM #3
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
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- 41
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Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
Having done a little programming in the OW mod myself, I know you can fully restrict or allow the map, hud, positions and compass. However, it does definately affect gameplay. I'm sure Drona knows this.
Have fun!
Bomber
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02-23-2009, 12:34 PM #4
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
I wouldnt mind it but heres the issue at hand.
There is still a large amount of TKs that are still occurring. And thats due to failure to know the difference between friend or foe player models, failure to communicate locations and failure to understand locations on the map.
But thats just the tip of the iceberg...
I agree remove the friendly icons because in all actuality they shouldnt be there unless a UAV is called and then all blips should show up both friendly and enemy.
But the real crux of the issue to even to have blips for friendly units to begin with! Now I'm sure your all wondering what the heck is Hazmat going on about now???...
Well digest this for a second...
In a squad based, team oriented, first person shooter that uses VOIP in game for communication... do we EVEN NEED GREEN BLIPS to show your squads location?
NO!
You are a squad detailed to conduct a specific mission: plant the explosives on the enemy's weapon cache and then defend it to the DEATH. Why, oh why do we allow or plan for our squad to separate/split at the spawn and go into hostile enemy controlled locations?
Lets do a quick math of forces on the battlefield...
Lets just say for this scenario:
1. Its a 12 v. 12 game
2. 2 known bomb sites A and B
3. 12 guys have to plant a bomb
4. 12 guys have to defend 2 bomb sites
5. The attackers already have the statistical advantage 12 v. 6
So why do we continue to split our squad in half for a "diversion squad"? Because now that its split and you have 6 v. 6 you also run into the dreaded Friendly Fire incidents we have all become accustomed to....
I know when I walked the trails in real world situations I never took my fire team, squad, or platoon and split them up and told them to move into unknown enemy held territory. It would be interesting to see some new techniques and tactics that kept the entire squad together up to the bomb site.
But who am I kidding.


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02-23-2009, 12:48 PM #5
- Join Date
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Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
Haz you absolutely correct on your assessment of the way things should be played, but the maps simply restrict, for the most part, an all out attack style because of their size. If we were on maps of the Battlefield series size in CoD4, then this would always be the way to go, but most of these maps restrict that amount of offensive push; too many bodies too close together and easier to kill, or the flip side is you spread out across the map, as I think works well in some cases, but then possibly lose the bomb on the opposite side of the map.
I think the basic game mechanics of CoD4 really restrict most of those "sell out" team attacks, at least in most cases. Just my opinion.
Bomber
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02-23-2009, 01:06 PM #6
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
Actually it could be done with the OWP mod.
I have already suggested a few tweaks and will revisit that with the GO to test it out...

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02-23-2009, 01:54 PM #7
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
I like the points you made, Haz. I also like Bomber's counter-points.
I do feel that discussion is a little bit off-topic but definitely worthy of its own thread.





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02-23-2009, 02:06 PM #8
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- 41
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Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
Sorry, Balfa. Didn't mean to get off topic. I guess my only point was that removing the map/compass/names/etc. can be done, if needed.
Bomber
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02-23-2009, 02:09 PM #9
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map






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02-23-2009, 02:23 PM #10
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
Its there to help keep the TKs down.
And in real world situations, I do have a device called the Tacticom its a handheld palm pilot looking device that shows me all of my squads locations on a map and is updated with their GPS signals. But I have to drop my weapon and pull it off my IBA and read it and the batteries only last for one mission.
But as we have seen, a teammate will shoot his buddy right in front of him just to make a shot on an enemy. So the risk is when you hit escape to look at the map your not aiming your weapon and could be killed. Just like in RL.

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02-23-2009, 03:21 PM #11
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
That makes sense, but I'd imagine if a squadmate is killed IRL, his GPS unit will still be active, so you can't use a Tacticom to confirm a man down. Or maybe it has some way of knowing. Having never been even remotely involved in any organised military force, I really have no idea.
Anyway, would you believe months ago when I was playing TRM on server 2, I didn't even know of the Esc map. Since I discovered it, I find myself hitting Esc far too much, even when teammates use radio comms, just so i can see who's talking and where they are. If there are gunshots fired, I automatically bring up Esc and wait for a teammate icon to disappear, so I know who was shot and where. I know I can control my own actions, but it's psychologically difficult for me to not use it, and it feels like a crutch. I'd prefer not to have the option at all of using it.
It's probably a symptom of a lack of team communication in the first place, and to a lesser extent leadership. The few times I've had someone grab the bomb at the start of the round, organise some fireteams, and give individual soldiers direct instructions are the times I've had the most fun playing.
I feel like a squad leader (or at least fireteam leader) should know at all times where all his men are, and what direction their guns are pointing. And maybe when that doesn't happen, people feel a little less organised, and kinda wander around doing their own thing. And I'm not talking about lone-wolfing, but just maybe watching a corner, and then deciding for themselves that they want to cross the street and watch a different corner.
We're all guilty of it, but when it happens, and it's not the direct result of an order given on voicecomms, then there's always an element of uncertainty, and that's when TKs happen.
Yikes, I probably rambled a bit too much. I hope it makes sense.





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02-28-2009, 04:01 PM #12
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
I would say that I lean more towards removing them but I do use this feature. Where the problem lies are those who want to play on our server but do not have a mic. They don't use VOIP and there in lies the issue.
I for one would say remove it and see how it plays."The mind stretched to a new concept can never return to it's orginal dimension."
"What the mind can conceive and believe..... it can achieve."
The Mediator






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03-02-2009, 01:46 AM #13
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
True, but in fairness, very few people on server 1 don't have a mic, and almost zero people on server 2 don't. I think the only regular non-micer who's hardcore enough to get on server 2 would be geeve, and he's real good at typed communication anyway.
Speaking of which, why doesn't geeve have a mic??
So it looks like there's some level of interest in it. Any chance of giving it a go for a month or so to see what happens?





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03-02-2009, 11:10 AM #14
Re: Server 2: Friendly positions on map
This is a pretty key set of observations. I think we've gotten to the point now where most folks that regularly visit are in the habit of calling contacts and using comms fairly effectively, though some still need prompting and there is certainly room for improvement.
Our next push for this title, and this is where everyone can help out, is developing more squad leaders that will do what Balfa has indicated to organize and control their team. Anyone that has played in Captain's matches or the recent 5v5 scrims can tell you what an improvement it is to have an SL actively managing their team.
Squad leading isn't especially difficult and there are a couple of things that will help you and your team immensely when you take on that role:
Have a plan and communicate it to your team.
Call folks by their name.
Give everyone a job.
There's a bit more to it in practice, but if you use those 3 tools, at least you'll have a decent foundation on which to build.
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