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Discussion: Call of Duty Archives / Call of Duty 4 - General Discussion - Walls, window sills and roofs. - We have been restricting the use of single width walls, some balconies and all windowsills
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03-05-2009, 02:02 PM #1
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Walls, window sills and roofs.
We have been restricting the use of single width walls, some balconies and all windowsills and roofs by players up until now. From this point on, we will allow folks to basically use things the game lets them use. The only exceptions being fabric awnings and the tops of tin or chain link fencing.
There are several reason for the change including:
Accept the game engine and map design for what they are.
Reduce friction amongst players especially those new to the server.
Reduce friction between admins and players.
Increase "fog of war" and reduce predictability.
Folks will still have to be aware that there are some spots, second floor of the antique store on Chinatown for example, were some of the open casement windows that you look through when you're on the windowsill have glass that only allows outbound bullets to pass through. This is an unintended glitch and taking advantage of it, knowingly or not, is still gonna get you a talking to.
While folks will not be called out for getting on roofs, they are still beholden to their squad leader's orders and defenders should not leave their objectives to access these features. The roof on Creek, and the house used to access it, for example, remain off limits for defense until the reinforcement rules come into play. So, the offense will potentially need to pay it mind at some point in the round as it does provide an excellent view onto both bombsites and their approaches.
Please keep in mind that we require teamwork and communication from the folks on our servers. We are not here to see who can get the most kills. Whenever you are in game, carefully consider whether your actions and the risks you create for yourself, such as taking an exposed position on a roof, are what's best for your team and the success of their mission.
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03-05-2009, 02:17 PM #2
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Does this mean it's okay to stand right on the edge of a wall so that it looks to others as though your player model is almost floating in air?
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03-05-2009, 02:49 PM #3
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
In answer to your question Balfa, I don't want the admins and players spending their game time micro managing every little physical aspect of every map we play on. There are hundreds of spots that we could argue the individual merits of allowing or restricting but that is overly burdensome to both the players and the admins.
In the situation you describe, 90% of the time, if the player floating looks down from their perspective they are standing on something rather than taking advantage of a glitch. You're model's position in space does not always jibe with what you are seeing in game. It's similar to when you're clearing a corner - sometimes I think I'm well covered by the wall in front of me but I get shot by someone around the corner I can't see yet. From their perspective, I was exposed and a pretty easy shot. This is the nature of the game engine unfortunately.
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03-05-2009, 04:46 PM #4
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Cool, I just wanted it cleared up.
I agree with you about wanting to focus on playing the game and completing the objective, rather than spending your whole time worrying about whether what you're doing is ethically okay, nevermind against some sort of laid down rule.
It's unfortunate, but I feel because of the sort of experience TG attempts to create, there are always going to be little things like this that need "clearing up".
Thanks for your work, both technically and administratively. No doubt there'll be people who welcome this change and people who don't, but I'm sure it's not a decision you made lightly.
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03-05-2009, 06:30 PM #5
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
I hope this escalates for repeat offenders
Originally Posted by P.Drona
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. ~ Jimi Hendrix
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03-06-2009, 04:49 AM #6
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
i do not understand??? why are we allowing certain aspects of the game to be taken advantage of??? Would one in real life stand on a window sill and shoot a gun? farther more could one even get a shot off accurately?? why would you expose yourself to an unconcealed spot just to get a kill??? i thought that we were trying to play the game in a near simulated environment.
is there not a way to go into the code in the mod that we do and change how we shoot or the accuracy of shooting? i know that viral is working on a weapons mod for his W@W server. could we not get with him and see if he is willing to work with us to help bring that change to the cod4 title?? i think by doing this, it would eliminate any need of going to illegitimate places, b/c the accuracy of your rifle would be detrimental.
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03-06-2009, 10:23 AM #7
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Some of this could be considered getting around weaknesses in the game engine, rather than taking advantage of them.
A real soldier can cover a far wider area from a window than someone in-game, because he can put his body, his gun and his eye exactly where he wants to. You could think of squatting on a windowsill in-game simply as a representation of someone leaning out the window to get a better look.
In the end it's all just about representations. I'm totally addicted to Pro Evolution Soccer and in that fouls happen just when two players are running shoulder to shoulder and there's no foul evident on the replay. But I have to remind myself that in reality, those two players would have their arms all over each other trying to get to the ball, but the game engine doesn't have the ability to do that, so shoulder to shoulder running is its representation of what's actually going on. If I didn't constantly remind myself of that, I'd go mental playing the game.
Remember that COD4 is just a representation of combat, not the actual thing.
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03-06-2009, 11:19 AM #8
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
glitch or not glitch i play the game to enjoy them with my friends..
well we just laugh about the glitch we discover and take it to our advantage..If you show your head then your dead....
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03-06-2009, 01:03 PM #9
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Originally Posted by Snake_Doc
Jack, at some point, we have to accept the things about the game that we can not change. Where we can, we will, and currently do, use mods to control some aspects of the game. The nightly arguments over which wall you can walk on or how wide a windowsill needs to be are over. There is now a simple, clear, objective, enforceable standard in place that is not subject to 15 different interpretations of what is acceptable for any given feature. In my book, that's progress.P.Drona:In answer to your question Balfa, I don't want the admins and players spending their game time micro managing every little physical aspect of every map we play on. There are hundreds of spots that we could argue the individual merits of allowing or restricting but that is overly burdensome to both the players and the admins.
I am not really of the mind to have the admin team shove things like preferred tactics/positions down peoples throats. The players must be allowed to succeed or fail based on their in game choices and not be put on rails so that the play becomes stale and overly predictable.
It is up to the players, the IHSs and the CoD4 TGU staff to make sure that they are educating players about the benefits of team play, communication and proper planning. The admin staff is here to keep the playing field fair and level and educate folks about our rule set and expected minimum behaviors.
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03-06-2009, 01:40 PM #10
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Good work Drona
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03-06-2009, 05:19 PM #11
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Jack no you wouldn't stand on a window sill and shoot from it however you need to understand that in real life you could hold you gun out of the window or even look down out of the window or lean out of the window without having to get in the window sill. The game limitations don't allow you to do that and thus part of the reason for opening this up which actually would add more realistic play to the game. i.e. You can't throw a grenade straight down in the game without getting on the window sill however I would bet you any amount of money I could easily drop a grenade straight down without having to lean out of the window in Real Life. Originally Posted by Snake_Doc
As Drona stated we are trying to get to a position of not having to micro manage and allow people to have fun. We can achieve this and still maintain our tactical play."The mind stretched to a new concept can never return to it's orginal dimension."
"What the mind can conceive and believe..... it can achieve."
The Mediator
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03-09-2009, 04:20 PM #12
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
I understand the rule adjustment, but this is why I don't play on server 1 anymore. The original maps are just old and tired. I appreciate the bomb relocation project, but that has just dressed up old parts...
Server 2 really makes all of these rule adjustments redundant. The mod does the administration for you, for the most part. Ledging, roofing, etc. aren't big problems in Server 2 because the game mode is so much more difficult.
I just wish more people played in Server 2 more often... Oh, well.
Bomber
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03-10-2009, 10:38 AM #13
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
That's an interesting point, Bomber. I never really thought about it like that. Although there are a couple of places on server 2 that benefit from this rules change, such as Hazmat's famous hanging off the back of the wall behind church.
Also, come back Bomber, we miss you.
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03-11-2009, 03:52 PM #14
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
Well Server 1 was always meant to be more vanilla and Server 2 was the realism mod. I would play all the time on Server 2 if we had more people play. We used to keep it full. I'll see what I can do to seed it more.
"The mind stretched to a new concept can never return to it's orginal dimension."
"What the mind can conceive and believe..... it can achieve."
The Mediator
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03-11-2009, 06:01 PM #15
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Re: Walls, window sills and roofs.
To be honest i havnt actually been on Server 2, no one is ever on it. I play on Server 1 all the time. Ill try and seed aswell.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
"Whiskey, yet again, will have my babies." -TheSkudDestroyer
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