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04-28-2009, 08:38 PM #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
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- Omaha, NE
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fog on server whatever
Before I have a tisy fit.....
What is the ultimate goal for the fog. Is it just a cool effect we are trying out? Is it really to reduce the amount of snipers on the map? What are we trying to accomplish by putting fog on every large map we currently are running?
No i have not cycled through all the maps in the cycle to find out which ones we don't have fog on, but it seems like a majority of them we do...
So.... Which is it?
ps overgrown is not one of the larger maps I am speaking of.
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04-28-2009, 09:30 PM #2
Re: fog on server whatever
I believe it's to reduce the amount of snping... Correct me if I am wrong. I like it personally cause now I'm using a m14 and not just a sniper to stay alive.
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04-28-2009, 10:33 PM #3
Re: fog on server whatever
There are 20 + maps on the server. I think 8 have fog and out of those 5 are on the large size. It's not every large map.
It needs to come off a couple of the bigger ones and it might get added to a couple more small/medium maps instead. The main map I don't think it's working on is DG Town. It really enhances gameplay on Village Snow and Burg. I'm mixed on Citi Suburbs and Docks (day). Hopefully a few more folks will chime in with some constructive thoughts on this subject.
The OWP mod keeps adding environmental elements that can be customized. The latest added include the ability to have daylight cycle on a schedule that could effect one map or all. The SOGmod has this functionality now and it's a trip to be playing and have the map go from dusk to dark. These elements are being added by the devs to help increase the realism factor for the players. The world is dynamic and these feature will help make the game more dynamic and customizable.
We're getting to the point shortly where we can have basically any weather and any time of day for any given map. I am hoping that the fog and weather effects can be randomized across the map rotation eventually so a given map is not always a fog map, but that's down the road.
It would be helpful if folks would point out individual maps that they're having a problem with. All this stuff is open for debate and none of it's written in stone. If folks don't let us know what's broke, it's hard to know what to fix.
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04-28-2009, 10:36 PM #4
Re: fog on server whatever
I belive it is to help bring the squad back together so we don't have be so alert to snipers straight out of spawn. snipers will still play a roll in the game but the maps won't be dominated by them.I think I will help develope more assault and defensive skill for all the less skilled players we have.
PS(I love sniping too Moses )




Only the dead have seen the end of war
Plato
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04-29-2009, 01:16 AM #5
Re: fog on server whatever
I must say, that I have been having much more fun since limited snipers and fog has come into play. The gameplay seems much more driven by the squad now, instead of the lone-wolf sniper. Also, not many people die just a few meters from their spawn in the first minute from kill-hunting snipers. One of the less talked-about benefits of reduced visability, is the exponential increase of comms. I can't remember many matches with more comms than we have had recently.
Tonight, we played a match on citi_suburbs with no fog and I think it really reduced the amount of fun I had on the map. Without the fog, snipers (or anyone on a roof for that matter) can pretty much shut down any above ground assult (but man, the 1 or 2 snipers are happy with their 10+ kills). But, with the fog, it opens up the map for more varied assults. Up the street is a fun tactic with the fog on that map.
My personal opinion on applying fog to any map is this: If it reduces the amount of sniping (mainly on the large maps) and helps provide an immersive and (semi)realistic gaming experience for the majority, I am all for it.
p.s. Sorry to any of the dedicated snipers that I have irked or ticked off with my opinion.








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04-29-2009, 01:20 AM #6
Re: fog on server whatever
After a couple of tweaks, here's the current line up of maps with fog and their corresponding density number. 1 is the lowest and 9 is highest level of fog. We'll try these for a week or so. I also lowered the density on Stalingrad and Docks by one increment.
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_fatal_morgana "1"
set scr_fogofwar_density_map mp_meanstreet2 "1"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_stalingrad "2"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_docks "1"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_oldschool "3"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_burg "3"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_village_s "5"
set scr_fogofwar_density_mp_citi_suburbs "1"
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04-29-2009, 12:47 PM #7
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- Apr 2008
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- Omaha, NE
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Re: fog on server whatever
So what i'm getting from all of you is.....
We are forcing people to play a certain way cause they weren't doing it on their own?
Ya the effects are cool, and they help to change the way people percieve the maps, so they play differently, but if you wanted to kill snipers take them out of the maps all together.
For me it is rather discouraging to be on the server most of the time. I play a sniper class, and act like a sniper class for the majority of the time. It was already difficult to play a sniper on all the stock maps, but we (snipers) would still try to hone our skills on small maps where a quick hand and an even quicker trigger finger was the only way to survive.
Then the introduction to custom larger maps and we began to thrive. It was like the chains came off and we were able to really play as a sniper role, but instead of everyone adapting to this new type of game play and changing tactics and the like. A majority of players chose to use overkill to get that extra edge in combat. The same snipers that started on stock maps continued to play as snipers, and everyone else chose brawn over brains to accomplish the mission at hand.
Then the openwarfare/that other mod came onto the server. Sniping became harder to control, and longer shots took time to line up, but we as snipers adjusted while the majority of overkill non snipers started to fade a bit, but still tried to keep up with the brawn over brains approach.
Then we instituted a limit on the number of snipers on each map. This started to form the play style we have today. I believe only two snipers are allowed on each map and this then limits the snipers from the mass majority that just play sniper cause they didn't overcome with tactics.
Now, we introduce fog......... Now the only ones your really hurting are the actual snipers. We are given huge maps to play on but feel like the chains are back on and now they've added leg braces and mouth guards. Maybe with the update to the fog we can come to common ground but why haven't we added fog to some of the stock maps or smaller maps where it might play a little differently and more to the liking of everyone not just one group.
Snipers are a real world threat. And NO this sounds like snipers are all that and more but they're not. They're just another class like the assault and spec ops classes that have similar advantages and disadvantages. It will just take tactics to overcome them.
If you want some pointers on taking down snipers let me know, I play a sniper class and know how to take myself down. I know my weaknesses, it might help to begin to realize your own and start coming up with tactics to overcome them. Thanks for your time. Sorry it took so long to write it down.
|TG| Moses
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04-29-2009, 02:47 PM #8
Re: fog on server whatever
Right now there are only 3 maps you could call large that have fog. Fatal Morgana and Meanstreet2, both small maps, now have fog instead of DgTown and Apesgorod. On a couple of the maps the density has been decreased. The version of the mod on server 1 does not have FOW capabilities so it can't be added to the stock maps yet.
I'm not trying to kill off the use of the sniper kit by introducing fog on some maps. The fog affects all classes, not just snipers. It's another element that requires players to adapt. While I was adjusting the settings last night, I also unlocked the ACOG for sniper rifles and unlocked the Barrett.
I agree that we shouldn't cater to a single playstyle at the expense of others. That goes for snipers as well as close assault folks and the hardcore realism crowd. There seems to be only enough folks that still play to support one server's worth of player population. This is why server 2 has most perks and nearly all weapons unlocked, friendly names on and FF off on clays. I don't think it's unreasonable though, to limit the number of snipers and LMG's per team and restrict folks to selecting one primary weapon to promote the squad loading up more realistically.
Server 1 has the Create-a-Class setup and everything except RPG's, Eaves, Marty and Last Stand are available. If enough folks want it, we can take the mod off Server 1 entirely and take it back to stock everything including spawns and sites. We could even make it mixed mode with or without the mod. If folks want a more fast and loose game available, we can make it happen on server 1.
Mindkill:
I concur. One of our hopefully shared primary values is teamwork. Server 2 is setup to promote and enhance squad functionality and team play. In the old days, folks rushed out of spawn without any plan, most folks didn't communicate with their team, folks got spawn or near spawn sniped constantly and it was run and gun mayhem with constant back and forth bickering. Now, folks spawn in safe areas, there's no rush fest, players have a little time to set up their kits and make a plan and you don't end up with 22 guys with Overkill sniper kits. The comms are solid and it's basically up to the attacking SL to set the pace, not the half a dozen guys that sprinted out of spawn to look for kills.I must say, that I have been having much more fun since limited snipers and fog has come into play. The gameplay seems much more driven by the squad now, instead of the lone-wolf sniper. Also, not many people die just a few meters from their spawn in the first minute from kill-hunting snipers. One of the less talked-about benefits of reduced visability, is the exponential increase of comms. I can't remember many matches with more comms than we have had recently.
As always, suggestions are welcome and folks comments are appreciated. If you're playing somewhere else, what's the main reason? If there's enough interest in doing something with Server 1, we'll change it up.
Moses, we need help with developing a new TGU sniping module for CoD4. Your input would be greatly appreciated. I'll shoot you a PM with what we have so far. Thanks for speaking up.
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04-29-2009, 03:38 PM #9
Re: fog on server whatever
Drona you hit it on the head. i think that we have a very few select individuals that know how to use the sniper role appropriately. mo stated a good point:
now lets see if we can come up with a class, and have people actually implement the things that they are going to to be taught!!If you want some pointers on taking down snipers let me know, I play a sniper class and know how to take myself down. I know my weaknesses, it might help to begin to realize your own and start coming up with tactics to overcome them. Thanks for your time. Sorry it took so long to write it down.



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"TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis
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04-29-2009, 04:35 PM #10


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Re: fog on server whatever
We may need to run one more Basic Infantry so we have more players ready for "Moses' Commandments" but that's definitely a class I'd like to sit through.
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04-29-2009, 11:20 PM #11
Re: fog on server whatever
Great, I think fog is an awesome sniper deterrent.








When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. ~ Jimi Hendrix
And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. ~ Plato
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04-30-2009, 12:41 AM #12
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04-30-2009, 11:45 AM #13
Re: fog on server whatever
First of all, I think thinning out the fog would be great. I hope the mod devs can soon implement non-integer fog density, so you can have 0.1, or 0.01 if you like. And then on top of that if the density dynamically changed not just on different plays of the same map but during a round (like the day-night cycle, which we should definitely use!), that'd be sweet.
Imagine being able to see and pick guys off heading behind the church on village snow and not seeing them next round, not because they're not there, but because the fog is a bit thicker and you don't even realise. That'd be fun.
Weather in general is something I wanna talk about. I noticed last night on village snow that there were two different types of falling snow. The plain floaty flakes that constantly fall, and the hard driving, windy snow that you get near the choppers (and possibly elsewhere). The latter is so much more interesting and the mod probably doesn't allow you to manipulate this, but it'd be great if that sort of snow was present all over the map, and much denser, too.
Fog's been around in games for a lonnng time, but I feel like it's never looked very realistic, even today. Things far away just seem to melt together into flat grey slabs. I think being able or unable to see someone because they're sneaking through really hard driving snow is much more exhilirating than because they're beyond this static threshold of foggy greyness.
Player models in most games stick out like a sore thumb. OpFlash seemed to get it right years ago (I haven't played ArmA) with respect to having distant enemies be just the right level of visibility. It kept you on your toes yet didn't feel like it was cheating you. CoD seems to have made some really good improvements by pioneering the floating debris and leaves that mask movement, but sometimes the models still stick out really bad, even to the extent that they look like they're glowing. I think instead of fog, really thick but variable weather effects like snow and rain would be not only more realistic, but a lot more fun and feel like a fairer challenge.
I'm sure moses would still be able to tell exactly which one of those tiny distant snowflakes is actually me wandering about like a headless chicken






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