hunting!!!!

**Jack Bauer** · 07-11-2009, 12:29 PM

Im writting this post as a noob so please take it with a grain of salt but i think i have a pretty good grasp on things.

[rant]

why is it that when there have been a set of rules that have been in place for a while, and those said set of rules have been reformatted to conduce a better gaming enviroment that everyone feels that it is a free for all to hunt? so that i am clear i am talking about rule #3 from the Tactical Gamer Primer:

Quote:

3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

i have not seen us use any of the fireteams that are available to us, i have not heard a constructive plan yet, and i have not seen team play. yes i can have the finger pointed at me, but ive only been playing this game for three days and would expect, especially with this mod, more team play than i do.

so why is it that when there have been no boundaries that people feel the necessity to kill hunt?? now i know with the whole map being open takes a little time to get used to by watching your back for the TACTICAL FLANK, but there comes a time to where your not protecting your objective.

there have been many times that my team has had the chance to plant the bomb only to try a tactic to sit in a building outside of spawn to catch the supposed "recon patrol" of the opposing team only to find out the the ENTIRE team came to spawn to kill us. yes the tactic of us sitting in spawn is not the smartest idea, but when the majority of the other team is only wanting to FLANK you want to try and do something about those kill hunters, and on another quick note for those who love to flank right off the bat, is there some special recon perk that i do not know about that tells you where the other team is at so that it allows you to start you flank immediately??

now i heard Krag say that it could be a "patrol" but if im correct that means that they have their base (bomb sites) secure with a good defensive perimeter and a patrol consists of 2 people not the whole damn team.

Quote:

Tactical Gamer requires teamwork because only through working as a team can we complete the objectives we are assigned. The reward for winning through superior strategy and tactics is far greater than the reward for winning through exploitation and oppression.

i get pissed when i get killed by someone who HAS to flank or just looking to up their kill count. in the last three days that i have played this i have seen TWO proper flanks WHEN they should have taken place and the result of that was a win. when you are by yourself "flanking" how is that playing with the team?

now if im off base please tell me to shut up and i will, but it seems to me that a lot of our community in the COD games just does not get the whole teamwork idea. i would like to have a constructive argument over this because maybe im the one who does not get (but i think that i do) the tactical play here in the COD titles but I DO KNOW that the mod that is in place now is the mod that i have been wanting for the COD titles and i think it is a shame if we let something like this slip away b/c stupidness

[/rant]

Slowe · 07-11-2009, 12:46 PM

Thank you.
I couldn't agree more.

**Extinct** · 07-11-2009, 12:54 PM

I personally think your not off base at all I think more points about the TG COD community's game play should be openly expressed. I'm sure no one will take heed of this but for the sake of TG I hope so.

I totally agree that all of us need to slow down our game play make a realistic choices on how to complete your objective without getting killed by your self. I hope to see more people paring up utilizing each other for more strategic plans.

I personally still do not see enough kicking going on as there should be (provided I am not on as much as I wish I could be I still do not see it). People that wear the TG tag and have been around COD servers for a while and know what not to do should be kicked in an instant.

**Mindkill** · 07-11-2009, 01:05 PM

I completely agree Jack and have been trying to get people to come over to our shared point of view. Hence the reason for the debate going on in the Suggestion Box.

I think some players may feel I am just being a mean-spirited-joy-killer when I talk about flanking. I would like to assure those players that it is nothing personal. I am just trying to get people to play tactically and for the team. Also, in the thread linked above, I made a comment stating, "If kills are the only thing that matters, there are other titles out there, like Halo, that solely focus on that." The point I was attempting to make is that there are plenty of games out on the internet where you can get your RnG fix and the SOG mod is not one of those places. So, come on people! Lets get the Tactical back in Tactical Gamer! Quit using the no boundries rule as an excuse to killhunt. That stuff is better served for the Halo crowd, not us Tactical Gamers.

I agree Extinct about the kicks. I have been very hesitant to kick people, as I would much prefer to educate them on the TG style of play. But, if the killhunting and lonewolfing continue much longer, I will start kicking offenders.

If people are curious about how to be successful on defense, without rushing/flanking/killhunting, spectate a few of the following players:

Krag
Mediator
Drona
Kin
Mindkill

Granted, the above list is just a few players that I have seen with solid defensive tactics and is not all inclusive.

**Jack Bauer** · 07-11-2009, 01:14 PM

extinct i agree with you, IMO TG'ers should be the first ones kicked.

i know that i have played here long enough, through multiple tittles, to understand WHAT tg is about. you and i both have made PCS in another title and i know that is not too easy, but in order to get that title we had to demonstrate what it is to be a TG gamer.

i also feel that the admins (this is not bashing) are seen sometimes as to much friend and not enough as an enforcer. i know that i have garnered a kick from time to time and havent gotten it b/c hey its jack or i know that me and drona are good friends ( i think

) and hes not going to do it.

i think we need to take another look AS A COMMUNITY as to our standards and uphold them. this does not mean to get on everyones ass and clog up TS or global chat and bitch and whine, why dont we lead by example?? i know that i try too

Slowe · 07-11-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindkill

If people are curious about how to be successful on defense, without rushing/flanking/killhunting, spectate a few of the following players:

Krag
Mediator
Drona
Kin
Mindkill

*cough* Slowe *cough*

**Extinct** · 07-11-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindkill

I agree Extinct about the kicks. I have been very hesitant to kick people, as I would much prefer to educate them on the TG style of play. But, if the killhunting and lonewolfing continue much longer, I will start kicking offenders.

I am really aiming the fast kicking at anyone who has tg on their tag... Wearing the tg tag means you've read and understand tg's sop's. And if you want to nudge those tg wearing wrong doer's point them in the direction of our COD rules section. Or be more authoritative, ie: tell them whats up and if they don't listen they get a kick. simple as that. if they want to play here they better get it into their head we mean business. Repeat offenses tempban etc...

I do not mean to tell you how to do your job, I just personally figure that's the way it should be handled.

**Mediator** · 07-11-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

i have not seen us use any of the fireteams that are available to us, i have not heard a constructive plan yet, and i have not seen team play. yes i can have the finger pointed at me, but ive only been playing this game for three days and would expect, especially with this mod, more team play than i do.

I would have to disagree with you somewhat on this one statement. Yeah sure there are rounds where maybe the plan wasn't detailed out by the bomb carrier but I have had some really good rounds with players who communicated the plan and others who executed that plan albeit that might not be every single round.

Now maybe you are talking about defensive plans and that's another story..... someone just needs to step up and be the squad leader to make that happen...... easy fix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

so why is it that when there have been no boundaries that people feel the necessity to kill hunt??

This I would have to agree on and I think it's as simple as us monitoring the folks so the no boundries doesn't get out of hand. Last night Drona made a comment about someone being in his spawn and I agree with him. Right when he said that I had to look at where I was on the map and realized I was up a bit far on the map myself. We can work on this.

I personally like the no boundries much better than I do having to be locked to particular route when in RL you wouldn't be. However in RL tactics you would have a squad leader on the defense. I think this might be the better solution here. I'll make another post about this because I feel this would solve our problems and still allow for game play under the TG Primer where is say Support game play in a near-simulation environment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

there have been many times that my team has had the chance to plant the bomb only to try a tactic to sit in a building outside of spawn to catch the supposed "recon patrol" of the opposing team only to find out the the ENTIRE team came to spawn to kill us. yes the tactic of us sitting in spawn is not the smartest idea, but when the majority of the other team is only wanting to FLANK you want to try and do something about those kill hunters, and on another quick note for those who love to flank right off the bat, is there some special recon perk that i do not know about that tells you where the other team is at so that it allows you to start you flank immediately??

The flanking maneuver as you mentioned should be used once the enemy has been seen. I have not seen the whole team flank and I think you may be exagerating unless I missed something that happened while I wasn't there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

now i heard Krag say that it could be a "patrol" but if im correct that means that they have their base (bomb sites) secure with a good defensive perimeter and a patrol consists of 2 people not the whole damn team.

Yep that's correct and it wouldn't be the whole team just a patrol.

Keep in mind that we still have to remind the players and ourselves from time to time to keep order straight.

**Jack Bauer** · 07-11-2009, 01:32 PM

we also have to realize that this is just not for WaW, COD4 and the new MW2 are going to have this mod and rule set so, that is why this is a big deal to me, if we cant get it down now, how are we going to do it when the new game comes out?

**Extinct** · 07-11-2009, 01:36 PM

My thoughts exactly Jack.

**Mediator** · 07-11-2009, 01:47 PM

Agreed Jack/Extinct

Balfa · 07-11-2009, 02:35 PM

Easy on the calls for quick kicks. When you're kicking someone, especially someone with TG tags, you should be sure they're purposefully ignoring the rules and not just having some misunderstanding or a differing interpretation of the rules than the admin attempting to kick. I'm not trying to go above the admins, or anything, but no-one's infallible, so you have to be real careful about what might be knee-jerk reactions to something.

I know that regardless of what the primer or specific game rules say, an admin online at the time is the ultimate authority, but they should make considerable effort to communicate the disagreement first.

If someone's doing something wrong, then talk to them about it. If they seem to understand but continue to do wrong next round, maybe talk about it again and make sure they understand exactly what you expect of them. If they still don't get it after that, THEN kick em. Of course if they seem oblivious from the start to everything you say and unwilling to communicate, then off with their heads

And of course for the players, peer pressure helps, and a non-admin with a TG tag has a responsibility to nudge people in the right direction, but once an admin gets involved in something, everyone else needs to keep out of it and leave it to them. And as for debating whether something should or should not be legal, the ONLY place for that is the forums. VOIP and TS are for teamwork.

Chief1122 · 07-11-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindkill

I think some players may feel I am just being a mean-spirited-joy-killer when I talk about flanking.

well if you want to get into specifics...

Jack, one idea i've had for the flanking rule is to have a 2 man patrol running a few grid's forward to be able to spot the enemy's main force or forward flanks. Then they can lay in wait while the enemy comes to us then come up behind them and basically we sandwich them inbetween multiple fields of fire. the only problem would be crossfire, so this make communicating a even more important factor.

**Mediator** · 07-12-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief1122

Jack, one idea i've had for the flanking rule is to have a 2 man patrol running a few grid's forward to be able to spot the enemy's main force or forward flanks. Then they can lay in wait while the enemy comes to us then come up behind them and basically we sandwich them inbetween multiple fields of fire. the only problem would be crossfire, so this make communicating a even more important factor.

There goes the suprise tactic...... LOL!

**LpBronco** · 07-12-2009, 11:36 AM

I have a problem when I see flanks initiated BEFORE there has been any contact. One of the defining points in our rule sets has been for the defense to start on defense and hunting parties and lone wolf tactics have been proscribed.

They seem to be the order of the day.

In response to this , I have seen the offense tighten their team play in order to counter these "aggressive" defenses. I am seeing a lot of plants but its more because the sites have been left undefended.

I'm not proposing we start kicking more. What I am proposing is that all our tactics need to be weighed within the gestalt of the primer and if it doesn't fit, be abandoned.

Things like:

-Bumrush A
-I'm going to my spot
-I'm flanking blah blah blah

Flanking should be a team response not an individual response and I've seen some good team deployments within the blitzkrieg but mostly they seem to be kill hunting tactics to me.