Sonnybonds

Advanced Start - this feature seems to be awesome! I'm thinking 1000 points or so and you should be able to get a decent start to the game without needing to do a live session like we did with ACTF.

* not really a good idea. the first turns are the most fun in terms of exploration and advanced start can be abused. A live session is much more fun IMO.

City Flipping After Conquest - so that people are forced to keep garrisons.

* Yes!!

Barbarians - unlike ACTF I think we should go with Barbarians this time around.

* No. Barbarians are only anoying. Ragging barbarians are really no fun.

Restricted Leaders - unrestricted leaders seems an interesting twist but it seems to me like it could really unbalance things. I have to think the nations and their leaders were set the way they are for a reason.

* Yes!! totaly agree.

Choose Religions - what is this option? I haven't played much BTS yet so hopefully someone knows.

* If you found a religion you can choose one. It doenst effect gameplay but i prefer the original no choosing religion.

No Technology Brokering - YES!!! We did this via honor system for ACTF and I'm glad I won't need to think about it next game.

* Yes!!

No Vassal States - does having vassals actually make sense in MP? Has anyone seen it happen?

* No vassal states indeed. I have seen it happen and there is always trouble.

No Tribal Villages - too unbalancing IMO...especially when they start handing out techs.

* i agree

Random Events - since Barbarians are basically random in themself it makes sense to go one step further and allow random events as well. However, it all depends on how significant an impact they have. If they decimate a Civ then obviously this should be disabled

* I dont care it can be fun but sometimes a bit unbalanced. In my last game i finaly got a city captured from my neigbour and the next turn 5 riffleman pop up because of a random event. And i had only axeman and some cats left.

oyzar

You get 4 draftable units if someone raze your city. It is not really random but it can sometimes be devastating if you have rather sparse military to begin with and you are more thecnological advanced than your opponent(4 infantry is a lot against an opponent using riflemen and grenadiers).

Bernout

How can advanced start be abused?

Raging barbarians wasn't even on the table. However, it appears that even regular barbarians have more of an impact in BTS so the game won't have any.

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

oyzar

You add and remove pop to get bonus gold.

Bernout

Ah yes...I had read somewhere about a gold exploit but it didn't give details. Anything else that might be of concern?

BTW, do you think we should consider using Bruhic's 3.13 patch? I thought that the official one might be good enough but I haven't read enough to be sure.

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

oyzar

Well in the official one spys get ejected when you decleare war, multiple graphics are missing(like espionage for buildings that give it and espionage ratios for human civs), people can trade stolen techs if we play with no tech brokering(imo no tech brokering is just as bad as full tech trading though...).

Bernout

Nothing earth shattering though?

I'm glad we decided to go with no Barbarians because AFSoccer and I started up a BTS game last night. The first time he gets a Barbarian Horde of 4 Archers appear right outside the borders of his capital. This was like 25 turns into the game or something. Needless to say he got wiped out.

What do you guys think about having newer Civ players at Noble difficulty level for the next game while everyone else is at Prince?

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

Snarlin

I'd adjust that a bit. Anyone who has previously won a Civ4 game hosted by 6MD is at Prince. Everyone else is at Noble.

Snarlin

__________________

Bernout

I like that train of thought. I would say anyone who has won a MP game should automatically be at Prince. The same applies to anyone playing SP who wins at Prince level or higher. For everyone else, how about a question when you sign up that simply asks if you think you have enough Civ 4 MP experience to play at the higher level?

We've never tried this before but it seems an easy way to level things out a bit between the Civ 4 vets and newer players. It doesn't seem like the difference between Noble and Prince would be hugely unbalancing.

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

Bernout

Ok. Thanks to everyone for tossing around ideas. Here is my proposal for the game format. You have until about March 14 or so to try to get something changed before I post the signup topic and make it official.



Advanced Start

In order to get off to a faster start, without needing to do a realtime session, we will be using the Advanced Start feature with 600 gold available to be used.

Some important points:

• Please practice, practice, and practice using the Advanced Start feature prior to game start! How you start off your nation could have a big impact on how well you do in the game. If you want advice, have questions, or want to share ideas with other players then don't hesitate to start up a new topic in the forums if one doesn't already exist.

• A Reference Guide is available which provides the cost of everything you can do.

• One of the issues with Advanced Start is the fact that there is no way to undo some things or just start over from scratch. As a result, I will restore the server as many times as is needed until ALL players are happy with their starting position. If you have a bad memory, write down your nation setup in case you need to redo it. And above all, please do your part by preparing beforehand as much as possible. Read the reference guide. Practice using the Advanced Start feature.

• This goes without saying, but if you are aware of exploits which give you an unfair advantage, then do not use them! This also applies to taking advantage of restarts.

Game Format

Nation Assignments

Players will be assigned player numbers based on an alphabetical list of TG account names. Nations and their leaders will be assigned randomly.

Difficulty Level

The default difficulty level being used is Prince. This is one level higher than Noble. If you are a newer player to Civ 4 or Civ 4 MP and would like to start at the easier level then please make that clear in your signup. Players who have won a multiplayer game or play single player at Prince level or higher are asked to stay at the default.

Settings:

• Map: Fractal
• Size: Large (unless we get more than 12 players in which case Huge will be used)
• Climate: Temperate
• Sea Level: Medium
• Era: Ancient
• Speed: Normal
• World Wrap: Cylindrical
• Resources: Standard

Options:

• Advanced Start
• City Razing
• City Flipping From Culture
• City Flipping After Conquest
• No Barbarians
• Normal Religions
• Technology Trading
• No Technology Brokering
• No Permanent Alliances
• No Require Complete Kills
• No Vassal States
• No Tribal Villages
• Random Events

Victory:

• Time
• Conquest
• Domination
• Cultural
• Space Race
• Diplomatic

Multiplayer:

• Simultaneous Turns
• Take Over AI
• Turn Timer - 24 hours (approx. 28 hours of real time)
• Advanced Start Base Points: 600

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

Sonnybonds

Why you choose for advanced start?

In the poll most players voted against it and a lot dont care.
If you go with advanced start I m out. Its really no fun. Its easy maybe.

Bernout

Well, technically 3 against it and 2 for it I suppose could be considered "most", but I wouldn't call that a clear majority. The no tech brokering was much more clear with 1/2 the people voting for it.

Anyhow, here's my reasoning for doing it:

• I really didn't want to do a live session again. You know, we play FPS games at TG all the time with 64 people online, but you try to get 10 people online for Civ 4 and it becomes an exercise in frustration. For the ACTF game we got in 1 hour of play for over 2 hours of effort. And I'm hoping this game will be much closer to 18 people. If that holds true, trying to get a common time for everyone will be next to impossible. And for those who couldn't make it, having the AI run their nation isn't very appealing either (and can be abused in its own right).
• I really didn't want to do a normal ancient era start either. Those early turns are just too slow. It would take much more time to start up your computer and log into the game then it would be to actually do your turn.
• Some people have stated they like the exploration part of the early game and its true that advanced start removes a lot of that, but not all of it. However, the choices that need to be made in the early game have not changed.
• Most of the complaints I read in the forums centered around the fact that the AI sucks at it. Well, we're not using AI! How to spend your 600 gold is a strategy game in itself. Consider it a challenge.
• It's something new. For the veterans who have played in many Civ 4 games, I would imagine this should hold some appeal. For the 6MD crew it is something we haven't done before. If it doesn't work out then we'll never do it again.

Anyhow, that's just off the top of my head. I hope you'll play Sonny! What makes a Civ game the most fun is the people you play with and I think, just like with the ACTF game, we will have a great crew for the next game.

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

XSChunkylover77

I'm definitely in. I'm going to have to practice my advanced start though.

Bernout

A signup topic has now been posted although you won't be able to officially sign up until Saturday. This was done due to the fact that there are a limited number of positions. It gives everyone a fair chance to become aware of the sign up and the provided information.

Game format comments, ideas, opinions, etc. are still welcome prior to Saturday! Nothing should be considered written in stone yet.

Ok....so what are you doing still reading! Tell your friends and let's see if we can fill up this game come Saturday!

Bernout

__________________

|TG-MD6| TG Primer

AFsoccer

Sounds like fun! I'm in.

__________________
|TG-6th| AFsoccer