New Pitboss Game Discussion (Jun 30/09) - Page 3

**Bernout** · 07-26-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules

There is one issue I think could be improved upon to improve the game: tech stealing. This was the great equaliser in Smacx. Unless (probably) I have got something wrong, to me it is really quite expensive to steal tech (with ESP points); so much that I don't bother trying. Can that equation be changed or is there a simpler way.

Am I missing something?

Probably not. I've never tried and I don't know if anyone has successfully stolen a tech. Maybe this could be something we can mod to make it easier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munro

I probably won't play in this one, but I'd be happy to create / review / provide a fair map for it, so that no-one gets toasted by the starting position.

We may take you up on that...thanks. Although I still like daV's idea of putting a city limit in place.

Bernout

Niklas · 07-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernout

Probably not. I've never tried and I don't know if anyone has successfully stolen a tech. Maybe this could be something we can mod to make it easier?

No no no no no. Espionage is the most underrated feature of CIV by far. It's really really easy to keep up pretty well using an espionage economy, the usual problem is just what you say - "I've never tried"(!). Espionage and tech stealing in particular is by far the greatest equaliser in the game, and there's absolutely no need to make it even easier. All we need is for people to actually use it.

The downside of focusing on espionage is that you can't hope to get ahead, but if you're already behind then that should be your least worry.

oyzar · 07-28-2009, 03:11 PM

I don't think I've ever used an espionage economy but i've had it used to great effect against me...

ManiaMuse · 07-28-2009, 03:52 PM

Hi

Just came across this and might be interested. I'm a sort of beginner/intermediate player (monarch level but not that many games under my belt, haven't got all the game concepts down and very dodgy micro) and haven't played any MP games yet. Found out about pitboss and looks interesting but haven't found any other games that are starting.

Would definitely be interested in this game, especially with a more experienced player shadowing.

classical_hero · 07-28-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oyzar

I don't think I've ever used an espionage economy but i've had it used to great effect against me...

That is because you are so far ahead in techs so often, it is the only way for other players to get even with you. :lol I know we used it against you in the TTT, but still it was not that useful, since we just did not have enough cities to really get the most out of the espoinage economy.

da_Vinci · 07-29-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classical_hero

That is because you are so far ahead in techs so often, it is the only way for other players to get even with you. :lol I know we used it against you in the TTT, but still it was not that useful, since we just did not have enough cities to really get the most out of the espoinage economy.

It seemed that I could direct research techs faster than we could accumulate enough EP's for serial tech stealing. But then, maybe we did not have the EE set up quite right?

dV

Ebenezer · 07-30-2009, 04:58 AM

If you set your economy up for EPs, its faster than researching. That includes things like building a few Scotland Yards (instead of academies), etc.

And you need to leverage the various bonuses as much as possible, like shared religion, distance from capital, open borders, etc.

Hoplosternum · 07-30-2009, 05:38 AM

I considered an espionage economy towards the end and was urged to do so by other teams. But I wasn't impressed by the sort of figures I was getting (without actually trying it for real).

I had a couple of great spies available but even with a big lead in espionage over Oyzar (I asuume they hadn't bothered putting much against me!) it was still costing a lot to even steal things like Music. Even with long term stationary spies and about 4000 points I never saw anything I could steal that I could not reserach within 2-3 turns.

It is also more difficult until very late on to gather eps than gold or reserach. With research their are many fairly early multipliers. Libraries & multiple Academies, then Universities and Observatories. Gold is even better with Markets, Grocers and Banks giving you a 100% bonus. You can't get these boosts with Eps until the late game.

Espionage also does not have versions of Wall Street or Oxford. Nor is it a completely sure thing. Doesn't it also depend on the other nation to a degree? If he deploys defensive spies your spies can be found more easily. If he builds up his ep for whatever reason doesn't this effect the cost you pay? These things are not under your control and while you could switch to stealing from someone else the same thing could happen and it will involve some wasted eps.

So although I admit I don't know how to run an espionage economy properly I don't see how it will overcome this point gap compared with straight research and it's other problems? Obviously early great spies can be used to steal multiple techs but this declines towards the mid game and that isn't an EE strategy really.

So for keeping up with researching I am sceptical. Of course espionage has lots of other advantages. In a game which did not have quite as many cities as TTs the sabotage events are cheap and could be effective. It also IMO adds interest and encourages diplomacy as it shows who is getting strong.

Hossarilla · 08-03-2009, 09:11 PM

Hello, I'm responding to the invitation Bernout made in the CivFan forum. I've played Civ III and just recently bought Civ IV Complete from Steam (3.19) I've never played an MP game though and would be interested in checking it out. Playing real humans sounds like fun. Let me know what you guys come up with.

Thanks!

**Bernout** · 08-04-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hossarilla

Hello, I'm responding to the invitation Bernout made in the CivFan forum. I've played Civ III and just recently bought Civ IV Complete from Steam (3.19) I've never played an MP game though and would be interested in checking it out. Playing real humans sounds like fun. Let me know what you guys come up with.

Thanks!

Stay tuned to this forum Hossarilla and welcome!

Bernout

Exploit · 08-07-2009, 11:00 PM

Hi, I'm also following the CivFan forum post and I would be interested in joining this game. I started my first PitBoss session about a week ago (a continuation of a huge 3 player multi-player game that my friends and I have been playing for months) and I really like the format.

I have limited multiplayer experience (a couple of games against the same 2 friends) however in single player I can beat the AI approximately 1/3 of the time at Emperor level. I've had to adapt my style of play drastically for MP games and I would like to see how I would do in a larger game against players I don't know.

I'm not too concerned about house rules for play balance purposes, as long as they are clearly spelled out at the beginning. Personally I play to win so I'm generally looking to gang up against runaway leaders, which in theory should help balance the game as long as everyone else thinks the same way. If the leader does convince some people not to gang up against him then he has earned his lead/win via diplomacy instead of just strategy, which is valid from my perspective.

DMOC · 08-08-2009, 02:38 AM

I'd be interested in playing this game. I don't have a whole lot of multiplayer experience, but I do have plenty of single player experience as I can beat deity on a standard map.

oyzar · 08-08-2009, 08:40 AM

If Rusten and Raskolnikov can team up, I could team up with DMOC

. It migth be more even if DMOC and Raskolnikov are paired up with some who have plenty of MP experience but who aren't necisarrily that skilled (compared to single player terms), that way they will get the best of both worlds.

BossSleepy · 08-13-2009, 01:59 AM

I play a bit last year, but haven't touched Civ in a while. I'd be interested.

'Sleepy.

**Bernout** · 08-13-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossSleepy

I play a bit last year, but haven't touched Civ in a while. I'd be interested.

'Sleepy.

Excellent! Welcome.

We're looking at a start for the game sometime in September so please keep an eye on this forum.

What I will start doing pretty quickly here is put together a proposal for the game format so we can get that finalized.

Bernout