Some SP tips.

**Iceberg** · 10-31-2005, 03:14 PM

Hi there, had some free time and wanted to share some things I find very useful in SP.

Culture: Civ has become a culturally dominated game, and in SP it will either make or break you. Unless you want to actually use your military, the only focus you should have in SP is your culture. Culture expands you influence and your borders. Not one military action is required to take over other cities. If you get enough culture cities of other nations will fall under your influence and eventually your control.

Expansion: Simply, the more cities you have the more cultural output you can have. Your first 50 turns should be put on expansion... and I mean every little nook and cranny you can squeeze a city into before the AI gobbles up the map.

Diplomacy: Be a coward. Always give into threats with civs that border you, and always refuse threats with civs that don't. Don't focus on building too many units, as you can upgrade them with Gold as the game progresses. (This is the only real use of gold before you get the technology that allows you to have the civic to speed up production in cities with gold). As long as you are building Wonders and building up your culture and tech, you don't need to really care about any other Nation. Also: Open borders are bad news early game, don't open them up until you can no longer expand with more cities (AI will gobble up land like crazy).

That is about it. Any suggestions/additions go on ahead.

MilesTeg · 10-31-2005, 10:25 PM

What difficulty are you playing on?

**Iceberg** · 11-01-2005, 12:55 AM

Noble.

**Vulcan** · 11-01-2005, 08:32 AM

I think my biggest problem was barbarians. I stacked up 2 units on each city and the barbarians still beat them and took a couple of my cities. They're ferocious, and once they have the city, it is near impossible to take it back. That was early on anyway.

SmokingTarpan · 11-01-2005, 09:39 AM

So here's a question for you, since I've still not been able to play very much (though I'm glad I have it, I wonder why I bought it so soon since I don't have time to play).

When building cities, do you still want to place them so that the "fat X" of two cities do not overlap? That's how I built in Civ3, by spreading cities 4 apart, but the impression that I got from the instruction booklet here is that you have a little bit more leeway this time around.

**Iceberg** · 11-01-2005, 11:37 AM

You have a little bit more leeway this time around.

**kormendi** · 11-01-2005, 01:10 PM

I always used to think that building my cities so that there was no overlap was best, but looking at a few of the CivFanatics GOTM saves a while back set me straight. It didnt really change my habbits in game, but it was an eye opener. In most of the games I saw, the players would place their cities as close as possible and cover all available terrain. I think the idea is quantity over quality. I personally like to have cities with 20+ population.

nickhastapee · 11-01-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kormendi

I always used to think that building my cities so that there was no overlap was best, but looking at a few of the CivFanatics GOTM saves a while back set me straight. It didnt really change my habbits in game, but it was an eye opener. In most of the games I saw, the players would place their cities as close as possible and cover all available terrain. I think the idea is quantity over quality. I personally like to have cities with 20+ population.

It is possible to have 20 plus population cities, you just have to build everything as close to the capital(palace) as you can, for cultures sake. I have found that is also very important to have a period of expansion and grab all of the land you can before the AI does. Like Vulcan said, protect them well because barbarians are a pain. I know that I can get high scores easy, but I am weak in the militaristic sense.

Eggplant999 · 11-01-2005, 10:09 PM

My strat is to build up infastructure as fast as I can, IE become like america was in dec 5th, 1940. So when someone attacks me I can go all out on them in just a few years with a newly manufactured army.

**Overlag** · 11-04-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kormendi

I always used to think that building my cities so that there was no overlap was best, but looking at a few of the CivFanatics GOTM saves a while back set me straight. It didnt really change my habbits in game, but it was an eye opener. In most of the games I saw, the players would place their cities as close as possible and cover all available terrain. I think the idea is quantity over quality. I personally like to have cities with 20+ population.

the strat of just "spamming" cities down isnt really valid in Civ4, you will soon run out of money doing this.

Reinhold · 11-11-2005, 10:33 AM

I still use the method of placing cities so that they have the maximum potential use of all spaces in their area. The CIV4 book also recommends that you place cities 4 to 5 spaces from each other. This gives a little overlap, but not so much you choke your resources.

I also play heavy on the culture aspect. When I identify the location of my neighbors, I build "blocking" cities to set up quick borders and keep them out. This allows slower, more planned expansion to those areas not accessible to my neighbors.

As for Barbarians, I always place 2 Archer units in my cities and have not lost one yet to Barbarians. This is on Noble level.

KeithMann · 01-04-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eggplant999

My strat is to build up infastructure as fast as I can, IE become like america was in dec 5th, 1940. So when someone attacks me I can go all out on them in just a few years with a newly manufactured army.

Or December 6, 1941?

aesop rock · 03-26-2006, 04:28 AM

I actually think that Squeak is right and wrong in his post.

Well, I'll tell ya why..

First of all, he is very right that culture is huge in this game. It can mean the difference between having and not having resources, or even losing a city outright due to revolt. Well, this part is obvious.

What is not so obvious is that in Civ 4, unlike in the previous games, your culture is extremely resilient. The AMOUNT OF CULTURE being produced is actually has a much greater effect on overtaking boundaries of opponents. Plopping down 5 great works of art in a row next to your opponents border will certainly have some nice visual effects, but the actual effect of having a strong cultural city with some nice wonders and specialists (super specialists are +12 culture I believe, which is obviously HUGE.. more than almost any single wonder) is far greater than even the 6000 culture produced with their special ability.

So how does this tie in.. well, I used to be extraordinarily possesive about my settler territory, but I started realizing that it had very little importance in the longterm game. Don't get me wrong, you NEED to find strong 2-4th city spots, but taking every spot early on or attempting to block the opponent from taking space is actually quite counterproductive. As you know, when you build a settler, your city itself will not grow in population. This means that exponentially, you have lost a indescribable amount of time if you sit around and only build settlers and archers for the first part of the game. Consider the alternative.

Instead of gobbling up every part of the map, leaving yourself weak (and far worse, you will become very quickly broke), get a few STRONG cities, one with several wonders if you can (to get great people to show up more often) and a few with some nice production value. Then plan carefully on the tech tree to gain a military edge on your opponent. Always keep your name on the top of the list on the right. It represents your military strength. Not only is it important to HAVE it, it's important for the AI to KNOW you have it. If you are on the top, the AI is far less likely to invade your country on a whim.

So anyways, you're building your cities and there goes the dreaded archer/settler deep into "your" territory. Ok, crap! This is where I usually would reload 8 turns and slavery whip out a settler to fix the problem. Whew, that was a close one. Instead, just let him settle there. Let his worker work the land, and keep building your culture and military.

I can tell you right now that an AI player like this will NOT be anything but an enemy before very long at all. Let them spend resources on what will soon be your city either by military or cultural dominance. As your culture grows, and overtakes their civ, they will be left will little choice. Be more prepared and better equipped, and when initial attack runs out of steam, be ready with catapults to claim your new lands.

So, the annoying neighbor warmonger/settlermonger is out of the way. Now, here's where it gets very tricky.

You need to find out who you're going to stand by the entire game, who you're going to have to kill to survive, and who you're going to going to have to watch VERY CAREFULLY for them to run away with the spaceship (Mansa-Musa). This person is almost always your closest ally, who you may have to backstab to win, which is also why I have a hard time winning diplomatic victories <evil grin>.

So, pick and choose carefully. Most importantly, your allies have to like one another. Beyond that, conder who will attack you no matter what (in order: montezuma, alexander, ghengis khan, tokugawa, or isabella if you aren't her religion). Don't rely on these guys. I swear on my life, even if somehow you get their undying respect, their overagressive nature will leave them in the stone-ages, meanwhile your ties with them have the whole world pissed at you. If you can, try to bribe them to attack someone that you don't like, because if you don't they might just attack you out of boredom.

***While I'm on the subject, I just thought I'd point out that Bismark is an excellent ally. More than a few times he's gone to war for me by me just saying please (free), and never once has he turned on me or attacked me when we had good relations. In addition, he keeps up to date in technology, but not TOO up to date. That's what I call a perfect ally. ***

Also, never ever ever ever trade resources with people who anything less than pleased with the people you like. Also, try to get free religion as soon as possible, as it helps diplomacy a LOT. Trading technologies doesn't earn you good or bad diplomacy, so feel free to turn down or accept trades as much as you want. Don't turn down tributes to your prospective allies, though. They'll only ask you once the entire game, so just grin and bear it unless it's critical top-secret stuff. In which case, it usually doesn't wreck your relations too bad. In fact, when I decide who my allies will be, I invariably give them each 1 free resource indefinately if I can afford it. In only 10-20 turns, they'll be MUCH happier with you.

Final piece of advice: play as Qin Shi Huang

.

Anyways, good post squeak, just wanted to put in my 25cents :P.

**CingularDuality** · 03-26-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesop rock

Don't turn down tributes to your prospective allies, though. They'll only ask you once the entire game...

This isn't true.

aesop rock · 03-26-2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

This isn't true.

Ya huh. Ok, well on prince or below then. At least, all the games (a lot) I've played, it's true.

If you already have a + or - for "You helped us." or "You refused to help us." they won't ask you again. I'm not saying they wont ask you for help in a war, or demand you stop trading, or a dozen other things, I'm just saying they won't ask you for a straight-up tribute more than once a game, per AI opponent.

10-31-2005, 03:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 24 Posts: 1,924	Some SP tips. Hi there, had some free time and wanted to share some things I find very useful in SP. Culture: Civ has become a culturally dominated game, and in SP it will either make or break you. Unless you want to actually use your military, the only focus you should have in SP is your culture. Culture expands you influence and your borders. Not one military action is required to take over other cities. If you get enough culture cities of other nations will fall under your influence and eventually your control. Expansion: Simply, the more cities you have the more cultural output you can have. Your first 50 turns should be put on expansion... and I mean every little nook and cranny you can squeeze a city into before the AI gobbles up the map. Diplomacy: Be a coward. Always give into threats with civs that border you, and always refuse threats with civs that don't. Don't focus on building too many units, as you can upgrade them with Gold as the game progresses. (This is the only real use of gold before you get the technology that allows you to have the civic to speed up production in cities with gold). As long as you are building Wonders and building up your culture and tech, you don't need to really care about any other Nation. Also: Open borders are bad news early game, don't open them up until you can no longer expand with more cities (AI will gobble up land like crazy). That is about it. Any suggestions/additions go on ahead. __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: AIT - 37F @ Fort Bragg, NC Graduate AIT Oct 23rd.

10-31-2005, 10:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
MilesTeg Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 117	Re: Some SP tips. What difficulty are you playing on?

11-01-2005, 12:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 24 Posts: 1,924	Re: Some SP tips. Noble. __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: AIT - 37F @ Fort Bragg, NC Graduate AIT Oct 23rd.

11-01-2005, 08:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Vulcan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Age: 30 Posts: 7,341	Re: Some SP tips. I think my biggest problem was barbarians. I stacked up 2 units on each city and the barbarians still beat them and took a couple of my cities. They're ferocious, and once they have the city, it is near impossible to take it back. That was early on anyway. __________________ TG Primer - CSS SOP's - INS SOP's

11-01-2005, 09:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
SmokingTarpan Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,460	Re: Some SP tips. So here's a question for you, since I've still not been able to play very much (though I'm glad I have it, I wonder why I bought it so soon since I don't have time to play). When building cities, do you still want to place them so that the "fat X" of two cities do not overlap? That's how I built in Civ3, by spreading cities 4 apart, but the impression that I got from the instruction booklet here is that you have a little bit more leeway this time around. __________________ [squadl] "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

11-01-2005, 11:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 24 Posts: 1,924	Re: Some SP tips. You have a little bit more leeway this time around. __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: AIT - 37F @ Fort Bragg, NC Graduate AIT Oct 23rd.

11-01-2005, 01:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
kormendi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Age: 27 Posts: 2,149	Re: Some SP tips. I always used to think that building my cities so that there was no overlap was best, but looking at a few of the CivFanatics GOTM saves a while back set me straight. It didnt really change my habbits in game, but it was an eye opener. In most of the games I saw, the players would place their cities as close as possible and cover all available terrain. I think the idea is quantity over quality. I personally like to have cities with 20+ population. __________________ Team Fortress 2 Admin \| NS Admin PM me if you have any questions/concerns regarding the server.

11-01-2005, 10:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Eggplant999 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 307	Re: Some SP tips. My strat is to build up infastructure as fast as I can, IE become like america was in dec 5th, 1940. So when someone attacks me I can go all out on them in just a few years with a newly manufactured army.

11-11-2005, 10:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
Reinhold Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 15	Re: Some SP tips. I still use the method of placing cities so that they have the maximum potential use of all spaces in their area. The CIV4 book also recommends that you place cities 4 to 5 spaces from each other. This gives a little overlap, but not so much you choke your resources. I also play heavy on the culture aspect. When I identify the location of my neighbors, I build "blocking" cities to set up quick borders and keep them out. This allows slower, more planned expansion to those areas not accessible to my neighbors. As for Barbarians, I always place 2 Archer units in my cities and have not lost one yet to Barbarians. This is on Noble level.

03-26-2006, 04:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
aesop rock Join Date: May 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Age: 27 Posts: 312	Re: Some SP tips. I actually think that Squeak is right and wrong in his post. Well, I'll tell ya why.. First of all, he is very right that culture is huge in this game. It can mean the difference between having and not having resources, or even losing a city outright due to revolt. Well, this part is obvious. What is not so obvious is that in Civ 4, unlike in the previous games, your culture is extremely resilient. The AMOUNT OF CULTURE being produced is actually has a much greater effect on overtaking boundaries of opponents. Plopping down 5 great works of art in a row next to your opponents border will certainly have some nice visual effects, but the actual effect of having a strong cultural city with some nice wonders and specialists (super specialists are +12 culture I believe, which is obviously HUGE.. more than almost any single wonder) is far greater than even the 6000 culture produced with their special ability. So how does this tie in.. well, I used to be extraordinarily possesive about my settler territory, but I started realizing that it had very little importance in the longterm game. Don't get me wrong, you NEED to find strong 2-4th city spots, but taking every spot early on or attempting to block the opponent from taking space is actually quite counterproductive. As you know, when you build a settler, your city itself will not grow in population. This means that exponentially, you have lost a indescribable amount of time if you sit around and only build settlers and archers for the first part of the game. Consider the alternative. Instead of gobbling up every part of the map, leaving yourself weak (and far worse, you will become very quickly broke), get a few STRONG cities, one with several wonders if you can (to get great people to show up more often) and a few with some nice production value. Then plan carefully on the tech tree to gain a military edge on your opponent. Always keep your name on the top of the list on the right. It represents your military strength. Not only is it important to HAVE it, it's important for the AI to KNOW you have it. If you are on the top, the AI is far less likely to invade your country on a whim. So anyways, you're building your cities and there goes the dreaded archer/settler deep into "your" territory. Ok, crap! This is where I usually would reload 8 turns and slavery whip out a settler to fix the problem. Whew, that was a close one. Instead, just let him settle there. Let his worker work the land, and keep building your culture and military. I can tell you right now that an AI player like this will NOT be anything but an enemy before very long at all. Let them spend resources on what will soon be your city either by military or cultural dominance. As your culture grows, and overtakes their civ, they will be left will little choice. Be more prepared and better equipped, and when initial attack runs out of steam, be ready with catapults to claim your new lands. So, the annoying neighbor warmonger/settlermonger is out of the way. Now, here's where it gets very tricky. You need to find out who you're going to stand by the entire game, who you're going to have to kill to survive, and who you're going to going to have to watch VERY CAREFULLY for them to run away with the spaceship (Mansa-Musa). This person is almost always your closest ally, who you may have to backstab to win, which is also why I have a hard time winning diplomatic victories <evil grin>. So, pick and choose carefully. Most importantly, your allies have to like one another. Beyond that, conder who will attack you no matter what (in order: montezuma, alexander, ghengis khan, tokugawa, or isabella if you aren't her religion). Don't rely on these guys. I swear on my life, even if somehow you get their undying respect, their overagressive nature will leave them in the stone-ages, meanwhile your ties with them have the whole world pissed at you. If you can, try to bribe them to attack someone that you don't like, because if you don't they might just attack you out of boredom. *While I'm on the subject, I just thought I'd point out that Bismark is an excellent ally. More than a few times he's gone to war for me by me just saying please (free), and never once has he turned on me or attacked me when we had good relations. In addition, he keeps up to date in technology, but not TOO up to date. That's what I call a perfect ally. * Also, never ever ever ever trade resources with people who anything less than pleased with the people you like. Also, try to get free religion as soon as possible, as it helps diplomacy a LOT. Trading technologies doesn't earn you good or bad diplomacy, so feel free to turn down or accept trades as much as you want. Don't turn down tributes to your prospective allies, though. They'll only ask you once the entire game, so just grin and bear it unless it's critical top-secret stuff. In which case, it usually doesn't wreck your relations too bad. In fact, when I decide who my allies will be, I invariably give them each 1 free resource indefinately if I can afford it. In only 10-20 turns, they'll be MUCH happier with you. Final piece of advice: play as Qin Shi Huang . Anyways, good post squeak, just wanted to put in my 25cents :P. __________________ "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock (http://www.mushrecords.com/release.php?REAID=38) "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God' or 'Good God.. morning!" -Blackalicious It is my firm belief that, until we humans stop using human nature as an excuse for our actions, we will never realize our true nature. Last edited by aesop rock; 03-26-2006 at 04:57 AM.

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