Re: PTBS BTS: The Terrible Twos - Signups

**Niklas** · 06-15-2009, 04:19 PM

That's how I read it too.

And yes, the server is definitely down. Have a look at civstats for a laugh.

EDIT: Just speculation, but it seems to me that pitboss hasn't been upgraded to allow for space colony win, but rather still thinks that launch = victory as it is in Vanilla and Warlords.

**da_Vinci** · 06-15-2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Niklas

Yes yes yes. Couldn't have said it better myself.

We have to play on, hop and I are competing for the first draft choice (or actually to avoid the first draft choice).

Hop stated a goal of flying (airship) before you launched ... well, now it will have to be before you land. It would be moral victory for me to put an airship in one of his cities before he builds his first one

And to pass him in score ...

dV

**Hoplosternum** · 06-16-2009, 07:03 PM

Well if I could get in to the game I am sure I could overtake you with my second power

And, errr, has anyone got an airship for sale

**Niklas** · 06-29-2009, 06:47 AM

... and it's over!

Thanks all for playing this out to the end. We got away to an easier win than expected, mostly because of Munro's graciousness in deciding early not to attack us at all for the rest of the game.

**oyzar** · 06-29-2009, 08:03 AM

Of course that involved us not attacking him as well, something we had otherwise planned to do... But yes the NAP's helped. Had CH been a bit more successful in his attack(taking out our holy city and one of my big wonder cities as well) we would also had a bit more problems.

**oyzar** · 06-29-2009, 08:55 AM

cities built:60
quchas 79, mining inc 55, worker 40, suchi 38, budhist 37, modern armor 21
I never used the modern armors...
I am not a builder!

I built 59 terraces, 57 courthouses 54 forges and 35 lighthouses 34 factories/libraries.

**ChrisFromLux** · 06-29-2009, 10:22 AM

Congratulations!

I would have liked to attack you and make it a bit harder

, but unfortunately, we were never in a position to attack you alone or with only Hoplo's help.

And as you said, your NAP with Munro and Elkad didn't help either

**oyzar** · 06-29-2009, 10:28 AM

We were quite a bit ahead of you in tech for most of the game. Maybe it was traits (though afaik you popped quite a few techs from huts right?), maybe it was better land(though we didn't have any happiness resources which you had plenty of for example), or maybe just the fact that you had to fight to get your land, maybe it was just better micro. Most likely a combination of this made us able to keep and hold a lead against you, as such by the time you were able to reach us we were more than able to defend ourselves.

**ChrisFromLux** · 06-29-2009, 11:15 AM

Yes, probably a mix of all, but especially that early war with Arabia did cost us a lot. We were clearly n°1 in Power around the end of the war, which isn't a good sign for the other aspects of your empire that early in the game. Especially as there was no-one else we could 'use' our units on, after Arabia was destroyed

.

OTOH, our economy was in a bad shape as well, after the war, because we had a largely spread-out empire; we had to fight hard to recover, and couldn't have afforded yet another war!

On traits, well, 2x Aggressive and 1x Protective isn't that great, I guess

And happiness resources, we didn't have that much. Plenty of Sugar and Ivory, yes, but not much more ... of course, these allowed us some trades.

EDIT: about popping techs from huts, yes, we really were lucky there!

**Bernout** · 06-29-2009, 11:58 AM

As per the postings in the server status thread, it appears the game is now officially over. Congratulations to Oyzar and Niklas for their victory!

And of course thanks to everyone who participated in the game!

Bernout

**Ebenezer** · 06-29-2009, 04:07 PM

We spent a lot of time preparing for war too. And worked the bottom of the tree for units while others worked towards lib. CH burning Oyz's colossus and shrine came at a great time for us, as we were very concerned about Oyz/Nik attacking us when our war with Hsoft started.

In retrospect, maybe we shouldn't have made that big loan to Oyz to upgrade units. If that war had dragged on longer, it would have helped.

As to the peace treaty. We really needed it when we made it. Nik/Oyz had a big wooden navy, a billion drafted rifles, and were just a few turns from infantry. We still had jannisaries and cataphracti, and were the logical target.

We thought they would bog down a bit, as some of you were tech equals, but instead they just accumulated more land at a staggering rate.

We were making a late culture run, but having never actually played a culture game before (even in SP), I made several mistakes. Needed another 12 turns or so. Even if we'd managed to sabotage a few parts, not sure we could have bought that much time.

Leader choice. Phi/Imp is fine. Spi/Imp for me seemed less useful. You can't abuse Spi for diplo bonuses with humans, and I really didn't change civics that often. A second Imperialistic just meant we both got to run a war, instead of gifting everything to the Imperialistic player. UUs and UBs were good. Our first real war was janns and cataphracti, and both performed outstandingly.

**ChrisFromLux** · 06-29-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ebenezer

As to the peace treaty. We really needed it when we made it. Nik/Oyz had a big wooden navy, a billion drafted rifles, and were just a few turns from infantry. We still had jannisaries and cataphracti, and were the logical target.

I don't criticize the Peace Treaty itself, but its duration!

The treaty was a good choice to protect your back while eliminating Spain and India. But 200 turns???

**Ebenezer** · 06-29-2009, 04:40 PM

looks up to me, as I just logged in and watched the replay.

Originally Posted by ChrisFromLux

I don't criticize the Peace Treaty itself, but its duration!

The treaty was a good choice to protect your back while eliminating Spain and India. But 200 turns???

We were kind of planning a proxy war that would allow us to hold to the letter of the treaty, if not the spirit. But their tech pace was so ridiculous we never had a chance. Less than 70 turns into that treaty, we'd already decided killing them was impossible, even with the rest of the world on our side. At that point we made polite noises to the rest of you, hid behind our treaty, and tried for the culture win. A few less mistakes from me and a few more successful spy mission, and we could have made it

**Niklas** · 06-29-2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisFromLux

I don't criticize the Peace Treaty itself, but its duration!

The treaty was a good choice to protect your back while eliminating Spain and India. But 200 turns???

We had talks going with hsoft to do a joint attack. But when CH attacked us, any such thoughts went out the window. When Munro asked for a 200 turn NAP, we were like "what? then we'll win the game! duuude, what's he thinking??", but of course we didn't say no...

**classical_hero** · 06-29-2009, 09:50 PM

It is so disappointing since we were so close to making inroads to them and the one team that could have gained from us making inroads helped them. Now that is crazy. Ultimately it cost everyone else the chance of victory. Had we been able to fight just Q's for much of the time, then it would have been so much easier for us to make life harder for them, but now we had to watch them go onto and easy victory. I have to say that yu guys are insane, or not wanting to try for the victory, which means you are bad players.

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