Re: The Terrible Twos - Server Problems

**Munro** · 02-21-2009, 04:54 PM

I agree with oyzar, hsoft, niklas etc here. Is there a misunderstanding over how the pause option works?

If the game is reloaded with only a few hours left on the turn timer, it can be left paused and then any players who are still to play can log in, unpause, play, and then re-pause the game before logging out.

That way no-one has to redo their turn, no-one will miss their turn, and chances are that the turn will also probably complete faster than if it is reset to the beginning with full 24hours left on the clock. No-one gets "hosed" by this as far as I understand it?

The problem with a reload is that, although we all know that everyone has an equal chance of being affected by a reload positively or negatively, it is really frustrating to be one of the ones who ends up worse off (and it doesn't help that sometimes you will be the one that ends up better off, since that can just feel cheesy too - to win a battle or whatever that you lost the first time around...) It's not really very attractive all round IMHO.

As hsoft mentioned, the biggest disadvantage I know of with the 'pause' option is that you can't unpause it if you are presented with a diplo screen at log-in. But this isn't that common and there is a usable workaround anyway (have someone else log in and unpause for you). Overall, it's a lot less disruptive then a reload, in my opinion..

Anyway, just wondering if there is a misconception over how the pause option works, or is part of the picture missing here?

Cheers,
Munro

**Bernout** · 02-21-2009, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Munro

Anyway, just wondering if there is a misconception over how the pause option works, or is part of the picture missing here?

My main problem with it is the fact that it is not a commonly understood feature. It relies on everyone knowing that the game is indeed paused and then knowing that they need to unpause it. Also, it's really only practical if you are waiting for a very small # of people to finish their turns. If I restore with 5 hours on the timer, pause it and the player X comes by an hour later and does his turn then that still only leaves a short time on the timer for everyone after him to do their turns. People who may now be sleeping or at work or whatever. Nor do I want to go down the path of then talking about having consecutive people pausing the game (or leaving it paused) since that is only going to cause confusion and set a bad precedent for bypassing the timer.

As you can see it really comes down to timing and when everyone generally does their turns. I've just found it simpler to ensure that there is 12 hours on the timer on a restart and then let things work normally after that.

I think its also important we keep things in perspective. The TG server hosting the game has for the most part been really reliable. Occasionally it gets rebooted due to windows updates but that's been the extent of the problems thus far. This means restarts are rare. And then you add to this the fact that major battles do not happen every turn so having one happen on a restart turn is rarer still.

Bernout

**hsoft** · 02-22-2009, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Bernout

If I restore with 5 hours on the timer, pause it and the player X comes by an hour later and does his turn then that still only leaves a short time on the timer for everyone after him to do their turns. People who may now be sleeping or at work or whatever. Nor do I want to go down the path of then talking about having consecutive people pausing the game (or leaving it paused) since that is only going to cause confusion and set a bad precedent for bypassing the timer.

What if there is a convention beforehand about pausing "If you see the game paused, it means something went wrong, come and see the game thread to see what it's about", so the player knows, when he reads the thread, that he has to re-pause it after his turn. As for the bad precedent, I don't see the problem. We just have to say that this situation is the only acceptable situation for game pausing. It's not like we're in court or something, setting a precedent is not *that* important

.

**emperor** · 02-22-2009, 04:21 AM

Or else you could change the announcement that Pitboss makes when you log in to "Server issue this turn: Please un-pause to play your turn, then re-pause afterwards". Just a suggestion from the sidelines.

**da_Vinci** · 02-22-2009, 08:51 AM

Assuming that reloads, crashes, and other reasons to have to load up a save are rare, then isn't the question what is the most unintrusive way to accomplish a reload? If a set of consecutive pauses is needed to avoid replaying critical events, maybe if it is rare, then it is acceptable? Depend on whether you think that pauses are more intrusive than replays.

If the idea is to reload from the last available save, to avoid replays, then the question is what to do about time left to play. If the reload happens without the game being down for an appreciable time, one might argue no pause is needed, as no opportunity to play was lost. But if the game is down for several hours, then some might have lost their window of opportunity to play.

The notion of picking a save with 12 hours left does not guarantee that everyone can get to their play window ... I know that for me, playing after work is my window, and playing before is not usually an option. So if it reloads at 3 am my time, and I have to replay, 12 hours is still not enough.

As long as it is rare, I think the pausing option might be the lesser of the two evils ...

dV

**Bernout** · 02-22-2009, 03:44 PM

Previous TG hosted games will have their old information archived here.

Bernout

**Bernout** · 02-22-2009, 03:47 PM

Please ignore...moving old messages here for cleanup purposes.

**Bernout** · 02-22-2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by emperor

Or else you could change the announcement that Pitboss makes when you log in to "Server issue this turn: Please un-pause to play your turn, then re-pause afterwards". Just a suggestion from the sidelines.

That's a good idea.

Ok, while it is more complicated I can certainly see the benefit of pausing the game to keep the impact of reloads to a minimum. I'm a bit surprised that it has taken this long for it to come up as an issue and I'm also surprised I haven't played in any other games which have talked about this. I know for CC2 that Capsavian doesn't have a problem with restoring with little time left on the timer so I can only assume that people are laid back enough where they don't go postal for missing a turn under those conditions. Or maybe most people are flexible enough with their game time where they can adapt.

Regardless of all that though I can also see that I'm not going to win this argument so I'm willing to give it a try. I'll use Emperor's suggestion with the understanding that the pausing would continue until the last player does their turn or the game can be unpaused to give roughly a 24 hour period from when the restart was done.

This should satisfy my requirement of giving everyone enough time to do their turns. I'll also be doing this for FoW of course. As da_Vinci pointed out, my point about the rarity of reloads hopefully means it won't happen often enough to be a big issue either way.

Bernout

**Snarlin** · 02-22-2009, 08:40 PM

Whew. Now that that's settled, I'll ask the "idiot's question". How do I pause and unpause a game?

Snarlin

**emperor** · 02-22-2009, 08:49 PM

The "Pause Break" button (across from F12, Print Screen and Scroll Lock) will do it.

**Ronnie1** · 03-04-2009, 02:59 PM

Welcome "SilentSunshine"....may your reign be long and properous(or short and sweet)!

Will you please "end" your turn when you have finished making your moves, we would all appreciate that.

**oyzar** · 03-05-2009, 07:44 PM

He didn't finish his turn, he quit while logging in...

**Niklas** · 03-05-2009, 08:16 PM

ronnie's comment was on the turn before though.

**Bernout** · 03-07-2009, 05:02 PM

1310 AD update.

I'm a bit late for some of these subs but I think I got it right.

Methos replaces PurpleTurtle.
SilentSunshine replaces slaze/Indiansmoke.
Morgan replaces Rusten.
twinswinmh replaces Hoplosternum.

**Ebenezer** · 03-07-2009, 09:19 PM

less than 4hrs remaining, forced to play before Whiplash. Honestly don't think it mattered anyway, as none of his troops were in range.

He'll have a double-move on me this+next turn, which will expose me to a potential nuisance counterattack, but I don't care.

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