Re: Dealing w/ 88 creep

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 09-09-2007, 07:22 PM

Alright guys listen up. Now I am not sure how effective this strat is in comparison to riflespam. (They both have their merits but riflespam is better in the early early game.)

I have basically been tearing up the Allied ladder with this strategy. Alright you want to get two engineers and build a Raxx and get a riflesquad out. You are doing this in case of piospam. If you don't run into piospam get out another riflesquad maybe 2. You basically want a total of 2-3 squads depending on your situation. Now with those squads play smart. Flank, garrison buildings, use cover, and you will hold. Now take one of those engineers off of the field and get up a WSC. Take him off early say on angoville cap your low fuel and munition with him and call him back for building unless you need the combat power. Now once that WSC is up build a 30 cal and stick him in a building. Now it's your choice of another 30 cal or a mortar. 2-3 MGs is enough hell you might even be able to hold with one. I recommend 2 atleast 3 at most. Get a mortar use it to clear MGs, bombard troops, and take out those medic bunkers. During this time as soon as you get 50FP build the supply depot and get a motor pool up. Get a quad out ASAP or a Greyhound but make sure to get both. Once either hits the field start pushing. Get BARs , a 57mm if you feel the need, definitely the first supply depot upgrade, and make sure you are armor and charge for that Pershing.

Now you are probably wondering how I deal with 88's. This part will basically make it GG or atleast close to GG. Get out two snipers. Have them go with your BAR riflesquads and sight for your mortar. This is a must if you see vet infantry. Now use the snipers to clear out 88s and anything else in your path.

Unless you make alot of mistakes (lose alot of squads etc) the only thing that will be a problem is Blitz. Your snipers+BARs+30s+Greyhounds+a quad is just death to axis infantry and that 7CP Pershing+stickies+a 57 will hold off any armor.

**Evo<^|SiNz|^>** · 09-09-2007, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Morganan

GG, mind if I nitpick a bit?

Vet1 for support and vet2 for inf would have sealed the deal much quicker.

Maybe I missed you using it but FTFL is such a balancer vs. inf co.

Repair your stuff!

I didn't notice, no upgrade to T3? The lmg-42 and the grenadier nades along with FTFL are such equalizers against BAR riflemen. The minute they hit the deck huck a nade.

Get in the habit of rotating the axes of your MG firing cone the minute you suppress a rifle squad vs. a good player, always assume there will be a flank, if you are wrong you loose nothing, and if you are right you loose nothing. Win/win.

Otherwise that game looked to prove my point earlier in the thread about Sturm being an almost auto-loose for allies starting on the bottom. It was a good game with an equal number of mistakes for both of you (the true marker of a good match imo)

Yeah, I pretty much ignored using FTFL when I should have been using it because I was rolling in munitions. It was just because I wasn't paying close enough attention. It was just a dumb mistake on my part that I was constantly aware of during the match, but just would forget to use it when a firefight broke out.

I was sloppy with my MG too, you're right. I just plopped it in my bunker about half way through because I was too lazy to keep micro'ing it, and it had a good LOS on the VP area from there. I coulda easily been overrun early game though if he'd been better with his rifles though. I knew I got lucky a couple times there.

I failed to tech to T3 too. I kept meaning to, but I would always pop out a gren squad instead, which proved to be pointless in the end because I was awash in gren squads and ammo. It woulda been way more effective to have those LMG's against the rifle hoard that he was sending around the map, but I was happy giving them all shrecks because I expected a croc to hit the field at some point. It seemed like he controlled enough of the map long enough to be rolling in fuel, but apparently he opted for BARs and MP units instead of teching up.

A KKC woulda been great too... just another one of those things that I don't always have the awareness to build. Same as above with teching up to T3, I should have stopped producing grens and I didn't need that last 88. I had plenty of fuel, so all that MP could have easily gone to vet with no skin off my back at all.

Thanks for taking a look.

**Morganan** · 09-09-2007, 09:15 PM

Np

I just spam FTFL whenever it's up and I can afford to mid to late game.

I don't always practice what I preach in regards to the axes of my MG's either, but I tend to curse a lot at myself whenever I don't.

For Gren squads and their upgrades, not including my first gren squad which gets a shrek automatically, I like to have 1 more squad with a shrek then I see enemy vehicles.

About the croc, from how I am reading your comment I think you were playing "against what you would do" instead of playing against what you were seeing. I got $20.00 say's you would have gotten a croc there if you were allied seeing what you saw on the field for the axis, so you expected him to get one as well. The second you saw a MP unit and those BAR's a croc was completely out of the question for him. I was expecting him to get a croc there myself until I saw the M-8.

When I go Def doc I get the KKC as my next fuel expenditure after the Kreig's everysinglegame so I don't do what you did and forget about it. (As you can guess, I do the same damned thing.)

**Evo<^|SiNz|^>** · 09-09-2007, 10:19 PM

I need to get in the habit of building KKC. When I stopped playing CoH a few months back, the KKC wasn't a big part of the Axis meta game and no one really used it because of the cost. I'm just not used to popping one up after I build my second unit-producing building.

I almost always like to build a Pak 38 as my first unit from the KB... I don't know why, it just always seems like it always saves my ass right when a vehicle comes at me. I suppose in this case I could have opted for a gren squad first and shrecked it up, because I certainly had the munitions.

**Morganan** · 09-09-2007, 11:17 PM

I'd have to check the damage tables, but the pak and shreks seem to do almost identical damage.

Am I right? Were you expecting a croc because that's what you would have made in that situation?

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 09-10-2007, 04:43 AM

They do 120 for the shrek and 118 for the Pak.

Expect crocs when you see a long period of inactivity. If all you see is rifles and/ WSC units be prepared for a croc.

**Evo<^|SiNz|^>** · 09-10-2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Morganan

I'd have to check the damage tables, but the pak and shreks seem to do almost identical damage.

Am I right? Were you expecting a croc because that's what you would have made in that situation?

Yeah, I probably would have tried to go straight for croc though. I should have known he wasn't close to getting one when I saw BARs and MP units. I think he built 3 of those Greyhounds. I just think the Pak has a bit more shock value to it than a squad or two of Grens w/ Shrecks. I always feel like it makes the opponent avoid an area completely for a while as the amass a force to flank it. Unless it's a map like Ango, where they're easily flanked.

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 09-10-2007, 03:18 PM

I haven't watched your replay but I fear a Pak more then even double shreked grens. Mainly because I usually get a quad out and trust me you aren't killing my quad unless you have a ridiculous amount of shreks. Storms are another story.

**Morganan** · 09-10-2007, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by RGM-79N_GM_CUstom

I haven't watched your replay but I fear a Pak more then even double shreked grens. Mainly because I usually get a quad out and trust me you aren't killing my quad unless you have a ridiculous amount of shreks. Storms are another story.

Originally Posted by Evo<^|SiNz|^>

I almost always like to build a Pak 38 as my first unit from the KB... I don't know why, it just always seems like it always saves my ass right when a vehicle comes at me. I suppose in this case I could have opted for a gren squad first and shrecked it up, because I certainly had the munitions.

The guy never made a quad, he made a HT but never upgraded it. The first vehicle Evo saw was an M-8. If he did upgrade the HT and my memory is fuzzy he certainly didn't do a quad rush like you or I might have and you are correct about the pak being better then grens vs. a quad. In any event unless you have a plethora of paks or gren squads, neither is as effective as a single mine in stopping a croc. (mine kills the engine, allowing you to kill the croc without your units being roasted.) As Evo said he was expecting a croc and he definitely did have the critical mass of gren's with shreks to kill a croc. He was freaking swimming in munitions and fuel, hell, he could have made panthers in that game to be honest and not lost any infantry power in the grand scheme of that game.

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