Evo<^|SiNz|^>

Anyone have any good tips on dealing w these things? I just played a very long and very fun game on Sturz where I dominated the early game and got 2 crocs and a Pershing out and took 3/4 of the map. He set up a couple 88's and kept probing my lines with shrecked Grens to get a visual on my tanks, which would get owned by them in a matter of seconds.

I tried a rush w/ 2 crocs, 2 pershing, and a normal sherman, and the only thing that survived was the pershing. Both 88's survived, and I was left without any army whatsoever. Callipes came late, but just could not take out the 88's no matter how many times I bombarded. He'd just recrew and repair between barrages.

No replay, I had to quit because I'm on call for work. But any tips from some of the better players here?

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"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

Morganan

Well, with you having 3/4's of the map and him having a couple of 88's that should have basically tied up most of his control. Killing the scouting troops with infantry would have worked probably...

Anyway, the best answer is you should have went RHS armor for calliopes instead of LHS for pershings. Snipers can also de-crew the 88 if you have something to draw it's fire. They take a ton of control, and if they were built against you when you had map control you should have been able to make him pay for it with pure infantry.

Evo<^|SiNz|^>

Well, I was getting by just fine by leaving a Croc near the VP's he kept challenging, which roasted his men. But he had medic bunkers which kept churning out gren squads for him, and eventually I was just overrun. You have to understand that I withstood about 20 minutes of this sort of stand off, and got him down to about 150 VP's before I got impatient and rushed the first 88 (not knowing he had just finished a second one). Once I lost my crocs, he advanced enough before I could get another one out to put his 88's LOS on my Croc every time it tried to get close to his infantry.

I think you're right about the Calliopes, I should have gone for them first and just spammed barrages at his 88's until they were destroyed. I just am amazed that 5 tanks vs. 2 88's resulted in such high casualties for me. I guess I haven't had to face them that much to know what to expect. I should add that I forgot to use Allied War Machine, which was stupid on my part.

__________________



"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

icky

A couple of AT guns supported by mixed infantry would be my suggestion.

__________________
Peace through fear... since 1947!

Morganan

I personally try to avoid getting myself in the situation you described, (sitting and defending my 2 VP's) especially with using armor as my doctrine. Inf doctine is better to defend 2 vp's. Armored doctrine is best suited for offensive op's, which clearly attacking a fortified 88 position pershings and croc's are ill-suited for unless you can zerg him down.

The be-all to end all is Sturm is a bad map for allies especially when starting on the bottom. It is only marginally better when starting at the top. Due to the long firing lanes it's best to assume def doctrine and 88's and the structure placement makes defending said 88 sites much easier then on the other maps. It's typically why not to many people play sturm.

Morganan

This is both true and false. AT guns are the best method to deal with 88's as they kill them the quickest, but vs. def doctrine they are a waste to make. (generally no armor is used going def doctrine, or only T4 armor)


Plus with him going armored doc and having 2 croc's, his infantry would have been kinda crappy compared to the Vet2+ gren's with his riflemen not having BAR's/nades. Remember, 2 crocs=465 fuel minimum.

icky

Good point. Maybe 1 AT gun then.

__________________
Peace through fear... since 1947!

Santa

I would go with trying to soften up the defenses that protect the 88 first. Use hedgerows, buildings, and other obstacles to stay out of its range while you hurt his outer defenses. Then when you think your ready to move in in force, having a mortar or sniper take out the team prior to your advance is great. He'll likely re-man it, but you can either keep sniping it or just push all your infantry in.

There are two things you should NOT do. 1) Dont send armor at the 88. Thats what it is best against. Its much less effective against soft infantry targets. 2) Dont go straight for the 88. Good defensive players will setup traps and defenses leading to the 88. If you go right for the prize, youll end up with no army.

One more thing, if he is "creeping" with 88s, that means he will have fewer forces on the field because of the cost of the 88, the upkeep, and the population count. However, ive never seen someone build more than 2 88s.

Morganan

I wouldn't even make 1. Def doctrine is basically the counter to any motor pool strat. Shreked Gren's just destroy both quads and M8's. Plus with T2 he is going to have pak(s).

Defensive doctrine should mean to an ally either airborne/TD or Infantry Co./WSC. If you already chose armored before you saw T2 forget the LHS and do RHS for the Calliope and get a triage center and a medic bunker up and just upgrade your infantry.

icky

Ok ok, I get it, I don't know anything. If you played with me you would know that by now.

__________________
Peace through fear... since 1947!

Morganan

I didnt mean it like that man, sorry.

We should arrange a night to get some games going.

Evo<^|SiNz|^>

Thinking about it more, I should have just moved in for the kill right away, like you said Morg. I probably would have caught him while he was still building his first 88 and destroyed his infantry force w/ my crocs. Instead, I tried to drain VP's and got impatient. Lesson learned.

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"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

gijoe

normally what i do when i am on COH and i am pinned down by 88's, what i do is charge two infantry squads with AT's. I use one sqaud to distract then as that squad is dying i send in the AT to take out the guns and if all else fails i bring in the engineers with flame throwers and i just dodge the guys left and right constantly back and forth. in a zig zag pattern and tortch them nazis. The i cook them on the bbq just to finish them off and add some spices and steak sauce. Jk lol

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Evo<^|SiNz|^>

Just tried the strategy I griped about above on Sturz. Very, very fun. The opponent wasn't the greatest I've ever faced, but I felt like I put everything together pretty effectively against his Riflespam + T3.

I was pushed back to just the left VP and about 1/4 of the territory on the map before surging out with grens and volks to retake almost the entire map. I got 3 88's up over the course of the game to cover each VP. He went infantry, but couldn't shell my 88's enough to stop them before he ran out of VP.

Give it a watch, there are some good moments!

http://www.uploading.com/files/SXL01...25_07.rec.html

__________________



"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

Morganan

GG, mind if I nitpick a bit?

Vet1 for support and vet2 for inf would have sealed the deal much quicker.

Maybe I missed you using it but FTFL is such a balancer vs. inf co.

Repair your stuff!

I didn't notice, no upgrade to T3? The lmg-42 and the grenadier nades along with FTFL are such equalizers against BAR riflemen. The minute they hit the deck huck a nade.

Get in the habit of rotating the axes of your MG firing cone the minute you suppress a rifle squad vs. a good player, always assume there will be a flank, if you are wrong you loose nothing, and if you are right you loose nothing. Win/win.

Otherwise that game looked to prove my point earlier in the thread about Sturm being an almost auto-loose for allies starting on the bottom. It was a good game with an equal number of mistakes for both of you (the true marker of a good match imo)