PCS and no-go lines

Berzerker2 · 01-20-2005, 10:37 PM

Lo all,

I'm writing to find out how you all feel about the "lines in the sand" we seem to use on many maps to enforce proper gameplay according to PCS. For example, on de_Aztec, the rule seems to be "CT's should never cross the bridge or go through the double doors".

I'm not going to argue these are good rules of thumb - they are. I'm also not going to argue that when your team is mostly dead, or you're on a small team, they definitely ought to apply.

What I will argue is that these "lines" are set in stone, and there are no circumstances in which they should be crossed. In general, I think that the size of the radius away from the objectives you ought to be willing to go as the defensive team is totally dependent on the number of teammates still alive. If we're playing italy, and there's only two people alive on the team at any time, they should both be camping the house with the hostages. On the other hand, at the start of the round on a full server, I think it's totally reasonable (and probably good strategy) for a couple of the terrorists to go take up forward defensive positions to try to get a feel for where the CTs will be coming from early. Think of them as scouts if you want. If we're still talking about Italy, that might mean sending one person to the balcony of the apartment on the right of T start, or down to the end of the long hallway. Those people should be willing to head back to the hosties quickly if they start seeing teammates die on the other side of the map, but I think it's fine for them to be out there at the start of the round. It's a little harder to argue these points on maps where the defensive team must guard two objectives (de maps), but I think it can be done just as validly.

Today, we had another situation where I felt it was not only permissible to cross a line, but tactically the smart thing to do. We were playing Aztec, and there was only one T left alive, and a good one (Meat ftw). He was hanging around the end of the bridge/other side of the double doors area, and had methodically knocked off 3 of the remaining 5 CTs by being sneaky and skilled. I think the best play for the two remaining CTs here was to attack him together - it was just too easy for him to pick us off one at a time. In fact, I thought the best possible play was to come at him from two opposite sides. To achieve this, one CT went to the double doors, and the other (me) went across the bridge - the plan being for the double door guy to flash, and then for both of us to charge. Since we'd be coming from opposite directions, he might kill one of us, but it would be very unlikely he'd kill both. This worked and we got him. Meat himself wasn't bitter, but some of the other denizens of the server started grumbling about lines, and not crossing them, so I thought I'd post my own thoughts here so we could discuss them.

I am by nature a somewhat more aggresive player than most of the other regs on the server. However, I think I do a good job of keeping the objectives in mind while being aggresive. I also think being aggresive allows me to take advantage of my strong skills (reactions) while mitigating my weaker ones (sniping). If you don't think so, and you'd like to educate me on why I should be staying back, this is your chance. Please keep it constructive!

Cheers,
Berzerker

**Scooper** · 01-21-2005, 12:16 AM

I agree that we should definitively clarify the boundries. However I think they should be set 'in stone'.

The first time I played with you was the other night on Italy and I watched you go to the end of the right (from the T spawn) and assume an ambush position on the balcony. A little further than any other TG member goes but within the semi-ambiguous boundries. I had a problem a bit later when you entered the apartment (again at the far end of the right side from the T spawn), continued through the entrance hall, into and through the first room, and killed two CTs in the far doorway of the second room. I'm not sure how far into the second room you may have gone but I came across their bodies and then killed you in the first room. Much too far in my opinion.

Tonight's issue was one which I was again camming. You crossed the bridge and were hiding behind the crates on the T side. I suppose you could have heard footsteps and hid there, I'm not sure, but if you had gone any further that would have been much too far. Where you were is considered too far already... from what I understand from my time at TG so far.

You said at one point the other night that you "pseudo-rush" and "piss people off". We could debate the intricacies of a so called "pseudo-rush" but to deliberately "piss people off" is obviously contrary to the TG style of gameplay.

Perhaps a fluid boundry dependent upon player number etc is worth discussion. Most assuredly clarification of "undrawn" lines in the sand is in order. I for one would love to know the exact boundries so anyone crossing them is undoubtedly out of his or her range.
Clearly, if you go further (and then even further than that) than any other TG member/player, you are out of bounds.

The issue as to why you should be staying back is simple. It's a server rule that is enforced quite strictly. If a TG member is crossing the line, how are we supposed to require public players to stay on their side?

This style of game isn't designed to be restrictive, it's designed to be fun, tactically oriented, and contrary to the dime-a-dozen deathmatch server where bombs and hostages are just window dressing.

**CingularDuality** · 01-21-2005, 12:24 AM

The reason we have strict guidelines is because many people don't grasp the concept behind our rules. I don't think anyone wants to have strict lines on the map. The idea is for people to understand what their objective is and to play that role.

Your post brings up several reasons for why we don't want lines on the map. You're right, in certain situations it is smart and "PCS" to go beyond the traditional boundaries.

What we don't want to see is the defensive team playing an offensive role. But as you've pointed out, if you're sure of where the bomb is (with the last remaining T), and you can coordinate with the rest of your team to corner it and neutralize it, then you're not abandoning your objective.

I hate the fact that the offensive team can often traverse half the map without having to look in corners or over their shoulder. That's not realistic, but a limitation of the game we're playing (it's on the same few maps, over and over, and we know them like the back of our hand). When defending, I think that to stay within the spirit of our PCS rules, it's helpful to consider what would occur in real life. CTs defending two specific bombsites would not run around a city hoping to run into terrorists. They would set up a perimeter around the targets and try to protect it. Terrorists with hostages would not wander around trying to find the people sent to rescue the hostages. They would hole up near the hossies and try not to expose themselves...

So, what does this mean in terms of playing on the server? It means that our "lines" are still good guidelines most of the time. Crossing those lines needs to be for a very good reason, but there are times when it is appropriate. I think most of the people that participate in these forums can understand this. It's difficult to explain it to a pubbie that has never before seen the PCS concept, though.

Berzerker2 · 01-21-2005, 12:56 AM

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