Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules - Page 2

**CingularDuality** · 02-10-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

I've been hounding the admins to get rules written down so both player and admin alike have something concrete to which they can refer when questions about the TG playing style arises. Cing has told me numerous times that he doesn't want to write them, and has told me (or anyone else who pleases) to go ahead and do so. dMw did, and they did a great job of laying the foundation of what TCS is while still leaving room for the nuances everyone seems to be clinging so darn hard to.

Their rules are great, but they don't cover any of the PCS issues that we've debated. They make it clear that a call for backup opens the entire map up for the CTs on a de_map. Fine with me, but that doesn't convey the necessity for all movement to remain consistent with the priority of supporting your team and accomplishing your objective at all times. I don't recall any of those rules ever being in question here. Perhaps I'm overlooking them because they seem so common-sense to me? Do we need to post the simple basics like this?

**Pokerface** · 02-10-2005, 07:47 AM

They cover ALL of the issues we've debated, Cing. They cover them with one statement:
"Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy."

With good reason, the rules absolve everything in the name of teamplay.

FOX9 · 02-10-2005, 11:33 AM

This thread has really brought across some interesting and great concepts. Perhaps if all the administrators could take a good look over the whole thing then discuss it amongst themselves to decide the best COA (course of action). You have most of our votes in, most of us stated how we felt about these rules so there is a good general idea. Perhaps, the only people that count, admins (j/k!!!) should sit down and figure this whole thing out once and for all.

**CingularDuality** · 02-10-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

They cover ALL of the issues we've debated, Cing. They cover them with one statement:
"Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy."

With good reason, the rules absolve everything in the name of teamplay.

No, that rule doesn't say that if your team agrees that you can go rush the enemy spawn. It says that you can't leave your team unless it's part of the grand plan. Big difference.

Just because the sign on the freeway says "slower traffic keep right", it doesn't mean that if you keep to the left you can drive as fast as you want...

**Samurai** · 02-11-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

No, that rule doesn't say that if your team agrees that you can go rush the enemy spawn. It says that you can't leave your team unless it's part of the grand plan. Big difference.

Just because the sign on the freeway says "slower traffic keep right", it doesn't mean that if you keep to the left you can drive as fast as you want...

I love you Dave. I really do. Awesome analogy.

First of all, we already have an FAQ posted here in this forum. Is there anything missing from that FAQ? If so, speak up and someone will update it, I'm sure.

An update to the rules? Sure, if it's necessary.

Rewriting them? Seems like a waste of time to me.

Stealing them directly from another site? I'm against it.

Especially since the site in question stole our original rules and adapted them for their server.

**Pokerface** · 02-11-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

No, that rule doesn't say that if your team agrees that you can go rush the enemy spawn. It says that you can't leave your team unless it's part of the grand plan. Big difference.

Just because the sign on the freeway says "slower traffic keep right", it doesn't mean that if you keep to the left you can drive as fast as you want...

I'm failing to see the difference you're trying to point out. The analogy is poor, as it doesn't take into account the concept of the team's strategy. To try to jam that into your metaphor there, you drive as fast as your team wants/needs you to drive.

If part of your team's grand plan is to have you spend your money solely on grenades so you can suicide your way into a throng of enemies, then you buy nades and you haul. If the plan is to work your way slowly around the back and catch them by surprise, then it's slow lightfooted babysteps.

IceCold · 02-11-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

I'm failing to see the difference you're trying to point out. The analogy is poor, as it doesn't take into account the concept of the team's strategy. To try to jam that into your metaphor there, you drive as fast as your team wants/needs you to drive.

C'mon, let's be sensible. The analogy is very simple. We're talking about rules. Rules restrict people's actions.

If the rule is "slower traffic keep right", then it means that if you're driving slow, you must keep to the right. It's not a license for people to drive fast if they stay to the left. Staying to the left doen't allow you to break other rules.

If the rule is "Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy.", then you must stay with your team unless it is part of a team strategy. It's not a license for you to do whatever you want if your team comes up with a strategy. Team strategy doesn't allow you to break other rules.

**Pokerface** · 02-11-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCold

C'mon, let's be sensible. The analogy is very simple. We're talking about rules. Rules restrict people's actions.

If the rule is "slower traffic keep right", then it means that if you're driving slow, you must keep to the right. It's not a license for people to drive fast if they stay to the left. Staying to the left doen't allow you to break other rules.

If the rule is "Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy.", then you must stay with your team unless it is part of a team strategy. It's not a license for you to do whatever you want if your team comes up with a strategy. Team strategy doesn't allow you to break other rules.

Again, no.

In the driving analogy, there are two rules. One says slower traffic keep right. The other says that no one can go above X mph.

In the TCS rules, there's no such analogous speed limit rule (I know, because they wrote their rules down for me to read). And as you've pointed out multiple times, PCS doesn't have "rules".

Were dMw or TG to have a RULE -- the written-down-indisputable-for-everyone-to-see-kind -- against the spawnrushing, I'd agree with your assessment. But as they don't have it and you can't be bothered to write one, for the time being at least, the analogy fails to hold water.

Grifter · 02-11-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Were dMw or TG to have a RULE -- the written-down-indisputable-for-everyone-to-see-kind -- against the spawnrushing, I'd agree with your assessment. But as they don't have it and you can't be bothered to write one, for the time being at least, the analogy fails to hold water.

I haven't understood much of this conversation, but apparently you paid no attention to the rule 'no rushing''?

And as per your argument that the Admins should have a set of rules written down for all to see.... you must not have read the two sticky threads at the top of this forum. You know, the PCS Standard one. Also, rules are written on the Message of the Day when you connect to the server.

FOX9 · 02-11-2005, 07:51 PM

I think I am with Grifter on this one. I do not think I am the most intelligent person in the world (although IMO I am

) But since I started playing on the TG servers and became a member of the commmunity, some things are just plain obvious. The flashing of console messages, our MOTD, and the only freakin sticky notes here! I believe are enough, if you can't interpret some of these minor details for yourself, OR if you must pettily bicker over them, CS might not be your slice of cake, and it ruins the fun for everyone else. Not to say that you all are pettily bickering over them, but some of these comments.....................

**Wyzcrak** · 02-11-2005, 07:52 PM

The FAQ makes no such rule. It offers commentary, but not a rule.

The MOTD (which is not available to people not on the server) states:

Quote:

Rule #2: Defensive team CAN NOT rush offensive spawn.

Perhaps the FAQ should be updated, as Samurai suggested?

Are there other things we can agree on... hard, fast rules... which are not in the FAQ (or some other form of documentation) and could be?

What are those other things?

**Wyzcrak** · 02-11-2005, 07:53 PM

Should we sticky the server's MOTD in the forum?

FOX9 · 02-11-2005, 07:57 PM

Making an MOTD sticky would be a great idea, however, perhaps if we updated it a bit, cuz i still check it every now and then when im joining, and its a little short

tekunogekai · 02-11-2005, 08:03 PM

*twitch*

The fact is, if the current rules were okay, covered everything, and everyone was happy, then there wouldn't be a debate, would there?

Playing a defensive role on hostage maps is extremely limiting with the current rules, and I think that's why the people who are posting for change are doing so.

I get the feeling that the people who are against changing anything always go CT on hostage maps.

IceCold · 02-11-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekunogekai

*twitch*

The fact is, if the current rules were okay, covered everything, and everyone was happy, then there wouldn't be a debate, would there?

Playing a defensive role on hostage maps is extremely limiting with the current rules, and I think that's why the people who are posting for change are doing so.

Here's where you're wrong. TG isn't running its server to please everyone. We run it the way we want to run it. If you want to run around a map and shoot anything that moves, there are thousands of other servers out there for you to do that on.

Debate that we turn our server into a deathmatch free for all is futile. It's not going to happen.

I don't think TG cares that everyone's happy. We play PCS on our server and a small percentage of CS players are highly attracted to it. The large majority of players are turned off by it. Screw the large majority, I say. We're not going to change things to please them...

This is not to discourage discussion, I'm just pointing out the flawed logic in your last post.

Quote:

I get the feeling that the people who are against changing anything always go CT on hostage maps.

Doubtful, as the terrorists generally win hostage maps... They're usually much easier to defend than to attack...

02-10-2005, 07:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules They cover ALL of the issues we've debated, Cing. They cover them with one statement: "Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy." With good reason, the rules absolve everything in the name of teamplay. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

02-10-2005, 11:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
FOX9 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Age: 22 Posts: 112	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules This thread has really brought across some interesting and great concepts. Perhaps if all the administrators could take a good look over the whole thing then discuss it amongst themselves to decide the best COA (course of action). You have most of our votes in, most of us stated how we felt about these rules so there is a good general idea. Perhaps, the only people that count, admins (j/k!!!) should sit down and figure this whole thing out once and for all. __________________ We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream. Wandering by lone sea breakers, and sitting by desolate streams. World losers and world forsakers, for whom the pale moon gleams. Yet we are movers and the shakers of the world forever it seems.

02-11-2005, 07:51 PM	#25 (permalink)
FOX9 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Age: 22 Posts: 112	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules I think I am with Grifter on this one. I do not think I am the most intelligent person in the world (although IMO I am ) But since I started playing on the TG servers and became a member of the commmunity, some things are just plain obvious. The flashing of console messages, our MOTD, and the only freakin sticky notes here! I believe are enough, if you can't interpret some of these minor details for yourself, OR if you must pettily bicker over them, CS might not be your slice of cake, and it ruins the fun for everyone else. Not to say that you all are pettily bickering over them, but some of these comments..................... __________________ We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream. Wandering by lone sea breakers, and sitting by desolate streams. World losers and world forsakers, for whom the pale moon gleams. Yet we are movers and the shakers of the world forever it seems.

02-11-2005, 07:53 PM	#27 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,138	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules Should we sticky the server's MOTD in the forum? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-11-2005, 07:57 PM	#28 (permalink)
FOX9 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Age: 22 Posts: 112	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules Making an MOTD sticky would be a great idea, however, perhaps if we updated it a bit, cuz i still check it every now and then when im joining, and its a little short __________________ We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream. Wandering by lone sea breakers, and sitting by desolate streams. World losers and world forsakers, for whom the pale moon gleams. Yet we are movers and the shakers of the world forever it seems.

02-11-2005, 08:03 PM	#29 (permalink)
tekunogekai Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 54	Re: Tactical Counter-Strike: Rules twitch The fact is, if the current rules were okay, covered everything, and everyone was happy, then there wouldn't be a debate, would there? Playing a defensive role on hostage maps is extremely limiting with the current rules, and I think that's why the people who are posting for change are doing so. I get the feeling that the people who are against changing anything always go CT on hostage maps.

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