Server 2: Are there boundaries?

**SephirothValentine** · 05-23-2005, 08:24 AM

I have played several times on Server 2 which as we all know is the protected server. I expect that most of the players know the PCS doctrine and act by it.

I have been killed several times by players going beyond boundaries several times by people who use to yell at me for going there. Now I know everyone says always be alert and junk like that but I expect it may be once or twice by guys that don't know the doctrine to well. Not by supporting members...

Now let me get to the question in hand... is there boundaries??? I mean that was what I was arguing for earlier (not the rushing but flanking and such that seemed to be denounced). I mean I'm all for it but please tell me before, then I expected a little restraint on the defense side on the protected server. Maybe once or at the most twice but not almost every round.

I'm just confused that's all. Tell me the deal and I'll adapt. Personally I'll take it with glee once I get use to flankers again since they usually are sparsly numbered and easy to kill

Karkianman101 · 05-23-2005, 08:57 AM

People are always defending themselves "no boundaries!", but there arent any boundaries on server 1 either. It's all about intent. So yes, for the sake of simplicity, there are BOUNDARIES. Context sensitive AREAS YOU HAVE NO REASON TO ENTER OTHER THAN FOR KILLS. The cellar and water in chateau: Do not enter them except for pure recon. The instant a fight might start there, get back. You are NOT to be kill hunting there.

(note that "you" refers to everyone, not Sephiroth in particular :P)

If anything, the "boundaries" in server 2 are more prominent than in server 1, but thats because they arent actually boundaries, like they arent boundaries in server 1. They are places that while on this server you have no business being unless it is directly furthering the primary objective. And those exist regardless of a password.

**asch** · 05-23-2005, 09:51 AM

A reminder about PCS

Seph, I know you've read this at least once. I believe there is reference to (imaginary) boundaries... or more specifically the lack of boundaries. What was enforced months ago as "boundaries" was in an attempt to both teach and admin about intent, objective, etc. In the end though, PCS has no boundaries... but as Kark said, it's intent that is judged.

**Pokerface** · 05-23-2005, 09:56 AM

Say what you will about intent, but if you're playing PCS, there are exceedingly few reasons to be certain places on certain maps. If you can see the T spawn on de_chateau and contact hasn't been made at either bombsite (for example), I think you'd be VERY hard-pressed to explain yourself.

**Vulcan** · 05-23-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Say what you will about intent, but if you're playing PCS, there are exceedingly few reasons to be certain places on certain maps. If you can see the T spawn on de_chateau and contact hasn't been made at either bombsite (for example), I think you'd be VERY hard-pressed to explain yourself.

I think pokerface is correct here. Though i will say this, i've heard "i'm securing a chokepoint" way to much as a "valid reason" for defensive rushing. Quite frankly if your the one being flanked you should be defensive, Not offensive. A defensive team needs recon and secure spots to protect the hostages, not moving forward and choking a possible offensive choke point.

**SephirothValentine** · 05-23-2005, 10:34 AM

Ummm.... so the consensus is?

**CingularDuality** · 05-23-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SephirothValentine

Ummm.... so the consensus is?

Did you read this thread at all? An admin and several respected supporting members have all said pretty much the same thing. There are not (and never have been, BTW) any boundaries on our servers.

Defense should be defending. There are areas on every map where it almost never makes sense for a defender to be. There are places where it makes perfect sense for a defender to be. There are grey areas in between the two...

It doesn't matter where you are on the map. It matters why you are there...

I really don't know why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp.

focUs. · 05-23-2005, 11:08 AM

Hey...just wanted to throw my 2 sense in also. I agree w/ the fact that theres no boundaries....its all bout intent. Like if ur on the defensive team and you are past a "boundarie" i think the only reason you should be there is recon, and if u do see players u shouldnt engage, but instead u should relay the information to the rest of your team. And as far as flanking goes....its kewl only if you've already talked and agreed w/ the rest of your team about it, other than that you shouldnt just be tryin to b the hero and do it yourself....goes against the whole aspect of TG. thnx
focUs.

**section-8** · 05-23-2005, 11:23 AM

"there never were any boundries" thats my answer whenever someone says "omgwtfboundries" on server 2.

**CingularDuality** · 05-23-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by section-8

"there never were any boundries" thats my answer whenever someone says "omgwtfboundries" on server 2.

That could very well be the wrong answer...

If you're well past the locations that people consider as "boundaries", then I would think long and hard about why you are there and I'd be prepared to explain yourself to the other team if asked. Obviously, you already explained to your own team why you are so far away from your objective...

**asch** · 05-23-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Say what you will about intent, but if you're playing PCS, there are exceedingly few reasons to be certain places on certain maps. If you can see the T spawn on de_chateau and contact hasn't been made at either bombsite (for example), I think you'd be VERY hard-pressed to explain yourself.

I agree Pokerface. I just want folks to question a person's intent instead of the boundary. But you are correct in that on some maps there is very little reasoning for the opposing team to be there.

**Wyzcrak** · 05-23-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asch

I just want folks to question a person's intent instead of the boundary.

Excellent.

Mateo · 05-23-2005, 12:23 PM

....and then you play a map that someone says "hey you can't go there, its out of bounds." That happened to me the other night (can't recall if it was piranesi or aztec). So to some people there clearly are boundaries that need to be respected, regardless of "intent", if only to keep the peace. I'd rather play as if there are boundaries and "play not to offend" then have someone on Server 2 say "Mateo isn't playing PCS" by being over someone's arbitrary boundaries.

**CingularDuality** · 05-23-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

....and then you play a map that someone says "hey you can't go there, its out of bounds." That happened to me the other night (can't recall if it was piranesi or aztec). So to some people there clearly are boundaries that need to be respected, regardless of "intent", if only to keep the peace. I'd rather play as if there are boundaries and "play not to offend" then have someone on Server 2 say "Mateo isn't playing PCS" by being over someone's arbitrary boundaries.

Whoever told you that you were out of bounds was wrong. If you choose to restrict yourself to the generally accepted defensive limits, you probably won't have any problems, though...

The "boundaries" were useful in crudely demonstrating how to play defense. Some people can't seem to let go of the crutches...

**asch** · 05-23-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

....and then you play a map that someone says "hey you can't go there, its out of bounds." That happened to me the other night (can't recall if it was piranesi or aztec). So to some people there clearly are boundaries that need to be respected, regardless of "intent", if only to keep the peace. I'd rather play as if there are boundaries and "play not to offend" then have someone on Server 2 say "Mateo isn't playing PCS" by being over someone's arbitrary boundaries.

This will be a touchy situation for a while. We do have players on server 2 that do not have the full understanding of PCS. We have players who still latch onto boundaries. We have players that will argue strategy. We have players who will argue PCS.

In the end, if you feel you are playing PCS and someone wants to challenge that in-game, don't get into a debate in-game about it. Go ahead and give a quick explaination and let any further discussion come to the thread. Situations like this can also serve as lessons learned for the rest of the community.

05-23-2005, 08:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
SephirothValentine Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: VA Age: 21 Posts: 313	Server 2: Are there boundaries? I have played several times on Server 2 which as we all know is the protected server. I expect that most of the players know the PCS doctrine and act by it. I have been killed several times by players going beyond boundaries several times by people who use to yell at me for going there. Now I know everyone says always be alert and junk like that but I expect it may be once or twice by guys that don't know the doctrine to well. Not by supporting members... Now let me get to the question in hand... is there boundaries??? I mean that was what I was arguing for earlier (not the rushing but flanking and such that seemed to be denounced). I mean I'm all for it but please tell me before, then I expected a little restraint on the defense side on the protected server. Maybe once or at the most twice but not almost every round. I'm just confused that's all. Tell me the deal and I'll adapt. Personally I'll take it with glee once I get use to flankers again since they usually are sparsly numbered and easy to kill __________________ - "Children in the back seat cause accidents, accidents in the back seat cause children." - "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~ SephVal <--> TG-303rd Master Sergeant (MSG) <--> Distinguished Sniper - Class I ~ COD4 Sniper <--> Owner of the Golden Dragunov

05-23-2005, 08:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,546	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? People are always defending themselves "no boundaries!", but there arent any boundaries on server 1 either. It's all about intent. So yes, for the sake of simplicity, there are BOUNDARIES. Context sensitive AREAS YOU HAVE NO REASON TO ENTER OTHER THAN FOR KILLS. The cellar and water in chateau: Do not enter them except for pure recon. The instant a fight might start there, get back. You are NOT to be kill hunting there. (note that "you" refers to everyone, not Sephiroth in particular :P) If anything, the "boundaries" in server 2 are more prominent than in server 1, but thats because they arent actually boundaries, like they arent boundaries in server 1. They are places that while on this server you have no business being unless it is directly furthering the primary objective. And those exist regardless of a password.

05-23-2005, 09:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
asch Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Mill, SC Age: 33 Posts: 9,834	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? A reminder about PCS Seph, I know you've read this at least once. I believe there is reference to (imaginary) boundaries... or more specifically the lack of boundaries. What was enforced months ago as "boundaries" was in an attempt to both teach and admin about intent, objective, etc. In the end though, PCS has no boundaries... but as Kark said, it's intent that is judged.

05-23-2005, 09:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? Say what you will about intent, but if you're playing PCS, there are exceedingly few reasons to be certain places on certain maps. If you can see the T spawn on de_chateau and contact hasn't been made at either bombsite (for example), I think you'd be VERY hard-pressed to explain yourself. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

05-23-2005, 10:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
SephirothValentine Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: VA Age: 21 Posts: 313	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? Ummm.... so the consensus is? __________________ - "Children in the back seat cause accidents, accidents in the back seat cause children." - "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~ SephVal <--> TG-303rd Master Sergeant (MSG) <--> Distinguished Sniper - Class I ~ COD4 Sniper <--> Owner of the Golden Dragunov

05-23-2005, 11:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
focUs. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Age: 23 Posts: 29	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? Hey...just wanted to throw my 2 sense in also. I agree w/ the fact that theres no boundaries....its all bout intent. Like if ur on the defensive team and you are past a "boundarie" i think the only reason you should be there is recon, and if u do see players u shouldnt engage, but instead u should relay the information to the rest of your team. And as far as flanking goes....its kewl only if you've already talked and agreed w/ the rest of your team about it, other than that you shouldnt just be tryin to b the hero and do it yourself....goes against the whole aspect of TG. thnx focUs. __________________ ....Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.... The first rule of focus is this: "Wherever you are, be there.

05-23-2005, 11:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
section-8 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Okinawa Age: 25 Posts: 1,306	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? "there never were any boundries" thats my answer whenever someone says "omgwtfboundries" on server 2. __________________

05-23-2005, 12:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mateo Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37 Posts: 6,483	Re: Server 2: Are there boundaries? ....and then you play a map that someone says "hey you can't go there, its out of bounds." That happened to me the other night (can't recall if it was piranesi or aztec). So to some people there clearly are boundaries that need to be respected, regardless of "intent", if only to keep the peace. I'd rather play as if there are boundaries and "play not to offend" then have someone on Server 2 say "Mateo isn't playing PCS" by being over someone's arbitrary boundaries.

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