PCS Proven...What's The Point?!

**Ben** · 02-20-2006, 08:42 PM

Many PCS Proven's are asking themselves this question...

I thought that we "achieved" this PCS level by constantly showing our abilities to play according to objectives, play with the team and lead a team with good tactics.

I also thought that we would be given, and are given, a little leeway regarding "boundries" (yes, yes yes, I know we have no "boundries"). I know for a fact that we were told that PCS players can be anywhere on the map as long as he has proper justification and that it is up to our discretion since we are already proven players on the TG server.

So, the question is, are we to wear the PCS tag in order to have a babysitter watching us and telling us what is and is not tactical or do we have discretion to make that decision on our own?

I know what is tactical on this server. I have no doubt in my mind that what I do is tactical, is best for the team and the objective. I do not need nor want a smurfing admin or an admin that is watching hidden from the rest of us, not privy to our team comms and planning, to kick me from the server because of a tactical decision I made with the team as a whole.

Either we have leeway to play with more advanced tactics, or we don't.

Either we can make these decisions on our own, or we cannot. I just want to set it straight.

Is the whole purpose of the PCS designation to play in server 2?

As you can see, I am baffled by the semmingly incongruous reasoning behind the PCS status.

**CingularDuality** · 02-20-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ben

Either we have leeway to play with more advanced tactics, or we don't.

Either we can make these decisions on our own, or we cannot. I just want to set it straight.

Yes, leeway is given to PCS Proven players. We shouldn't have to babysit them.

That said, violations of TG rules committed by Proven players will have swifter and harsher consequences. They should know better.

**Hemorrhoids** · 02-20-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ben

Is the whole purpose of the PCS designation to play in server 2?

And we all know how much fun a server full of bots is.

But seriously, the answer to Ben's concern is server 2, as it is designated for PCS players. It's difficult to differentiate for new players, what is considered to be tactical and just hunting for kills.

Now someone who knows what I trying to say please explain it better.

**radicaldreamer** · 02-20-2006, 10:48 PM

i'll be honest with you guys though

the only time there's more than 2 people on server 2 is if it's organized

i think there is a lack of PCS Proven players, but i do respect your decisions on who becomes a member of this elite group

what i think would be a good idea, is to organize some play on server 2 as a weekly basis, or something like that

i mean, what's the point of PCS play on server 2, if no one's ever there?

**Ben** · 02-20-2006, 10:52 PM

there is no point

**Karkianman101** · 02-20-2006, 11:35 PM

I have an idea. How about we allow forum registered people onto Server 2, but only if an admin is present on the server. If the admin leaves, all non PCS-P are kicked. And, if at any point the PCS-P want to have more of a 'pure' experiance, they can set the server status to PCS-P only, and the server would revert to all when they either un-set it or all left.

**Carver** · 02-20-2006, 11:45 PM

the only time there's more than 2 people on server 2 is if it's organized

I tried to start a topic about this and it was closed instantly.

**section-8** · 02-21-2006, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Karkianman101

I have an idea. How about we allow forum registered people onto Server 2, but only if an admin is present on the server.

sounds good. except we have roughly 2.5 admins that play regularly in CS.

changes that need to be made:

1) make all pcsp SMs, t-admins

2) open up server 2 and VIP mode to regulars at LEAST once a week, if not several times a week.

3) try and get more pcsproven to come and ACTUALLY play...we have tons...they just arnt active

**Ben** · 02-21-2006, 09:16 AM

All PCS provens should be given t-admin. if we are to be trusted then we need the ability to make things happen when aan admin is not around, that is for sure.

My "there is no point" comment was on the question that Radical Dreamer asked "i mean, what's the point of PCS play on server 2, if no one's ever there?"

I answer " there is no point". It is a concise answer to a question that was asked.

Again, I see Cingular Duality answered my question above about "what is the point of PCS Proven status" by the following answer:

"Yes, leeway is given to PCS Proven players. We shouldn't have to babysit them.
That said, violations of TG rules committed by Proven players will have swifter and harsher consequences. They should know better."

What PCS needs is something to sink our teeth into, not just words told to us one day and then seemingly flipped on us the next. It is a very confusing issue that always seems to be solved by an admin saying that if PCS does this or that then he will be kicked.

Well, I know that the admin team are strong on the rules and that is great for the server to maintain order.

But, if I ask a question about what leeway PCS players are given and then the best answer I get is that we are given leeway but " violations of TG rules committed by Proven players will have swifter and harsher consequences. They should know better" is the follow through, then in essence my question was not answered at all and the most detailed part of the answer was a threat of punishment!?!

This is the fundamental problem here. Quick to threat and punish but slow to give leeway or guidlines as to what is our leeway and what is not.

Maybe we need another SOP for PCS players in the form of what is allowed and what isnt? Maybe that would help stop some confusion?

I am trying to get some clarity here and i wish other PCS that feel the same way would speak up and add your 2 cents as it affects you too.

**CingularDuality** · 02-21-2006, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ben

But, if I ask a question about what leeway PCS players are given and then the best answer I get is that we are given leeway but " violations of TG rules committed by Proven players will have swifter and harsher consequences. They should know better" is the follow through, then in essence my question was not answered at all and the most detailed part of the answer was a threat of punishment!?!

I'm sorry. You asked about leeway and admin action, and I thought my answer was quite appropriate.

Do you want to get more specific with your question?

Let's discuss "boundaries". And to start off the discussion, Ben, I would like you to explain to me how you know if you're close enough, or too far, from your objectives. In detail, please. We need to explain to the non-Proven how they can determine how far they can go from their objective, so this should be a fine discussion for this.

**Vulcan** · 02-21-2006, 11:05 AM

typically that was allowed on view as the sniper nest is big threat to completing the objective. But discussing the reasoning behind a kick is not for the forums, that should be in a pm to the admins.

If you are PCS Proven you should be allowed the leeway of going the extra step to helping complete the objective, IMO especially if an admin is on your team and gives the ok.

**Ben** · 02-21-2006, 11:09 AM

The boundries as we know them are all objective based. As such, if you as an individual are not supporting your team as a whole to complete your most immediate objectives then you are not playing it straight.

I do not feel that going after an enemy sniper that is a direct threat to the bombsight is beyond reasonable objective based boundries. no matter where they are on the map. Snipers have long arms of death and sometimes you need to get a little close and personal in order to take him out and deny that team their cover fire.

For the Non-PCS crowd...Your primary objective is to stop the opposing team from completing their objective, be it bomb plant or hostie rescue.
If you are deviating from that objective by obvious killhunting that is of no immediate benefit to your teams objectives then you are not playing according to the server rules.

The key here is what is needed NOW.
Are you the last T on your team alive on Italy? If so, get to the best defendable postion in order to stop the CT's from rescuing the hosties. This does not mean to wait in the house if you do not feel that is the best position.
It might mean to hit the opposing CT team from behind, it might mean many things but it certainly means that the primary objective on your mind is defending the hosties.

This is a very dynamic game that cannot be carved in stone. It flows according to gameplay so it changes constantly. As long as you are supporting your team and the immediate objectives then you are following the right goals.

Now, PCS players already know this and have PROVEN that they know this time and again. If a PCS player feels that he needs to be a lookout or an ambush position that is more forward than normal then that should be fine. This WILL be supporting your team because a PCS player always has that in mind...If not, he shouldnt be a PCS Proven player!

You should not be too far from your objective that you couldnt shoot and hit the opposing team if they are approaching their objective.
If you are a full team then you do not have to stay within a certain distance from your objective, rather, you should make certain that the majority of the team is closer to the objective while a small part of the team acts either as lookouts, ambush or patrols.
This will ensure that you will not all be caught in a kill zone if the opposing team decides to flank or rush as you will have a small force out of the zone to counter flank the attacking team.

The fact that this is such a dynamic game makes it very difficult to nail down every instance where you are too far or too close to your objective.
Obviously, runnig into a spawn point and shooting the other team while they are planning is not helping your objectives.

But every player on this map must have eyes and ears open at all times, including in the spawn. There should not be an instant when you are not paying full attention to your surroundings. You should not feel safe at all in any map no matter where you are.

**Ben** · 02-21-2006, 11:26 AM

And here we have the root of the issue.
Cingular feels one way.
Vulcan and fenix feel another
Root feels another way entirely

And the players are left with 5 different views on one issue in one map.

This is very demoralizing and confusing because you are doing what you know is the right thing for the map and then boom, you are gone, because one admin decides that you are doing the wrong thing while another admin feels you are doing the right thing.

I can semi- understand this for NON-PCS players but this is not right for a PCS Proven player.

I know you are all human and all think differently, but so are THE PLAYERS. We also think and judge differently just like you do. What i feel and know is the right move on a map is wrong to one admin yet right to 2 others?

You have to agree that this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. I think that if an admin is not hidden, is actually playing under his name that is recognized as an admin, he should have the final say as to what is going on during gameplay. (especially when he is on the team of the person doing the planning).

If there are 2 admins and one is hidden then he should confer with the other admin before kicking anyone when he is on the opposite team. (unless it is a flagrant cheating/spamming/rushing problem.)

This should apply all the more so to a PCS Proven player whose tactics are being questioned by an admin on an opposing team.
That admin is NOT listening to our planning so he should imagine that since the player he is questioning is a PCS player then maybe that player is doing what is right for his team, has communicated and planned it.

as an addition to this topic:
This also should apply when an entire team is slayed by an admin because the admin feels that the team is not following his orders. Especially when the admin is on the opposing team.

It feels very dictator like on this server in many instances and it seems to be getting worse by the day, not better. People dont play here in order to be barked at and chastised. They play for the tactics and TEAMWORK. Teamwork swings both ways, from the admin on down.
Teamwork does not mean ordering people around, playing big boss man and when they don't do exactely what you want you slay them. this is not Iraq under Saddams regime.

This needs to change as it is severely demoralizing many players.

**measley** · 02-21-2006, 11:36 AM

Even though I'm not PCS, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.

It seems to me that there are certainly circumstances that killing a member of the opposing team is crucial to the success of your plan (and therefore tactical). Hunting down a sniper that is killing your entire team and preventing you from defusing, imo, is one of those circumstances, regardless of where the sniper is.

Is this considered killhunting? Or is it an obstacle that you have to take care of in order to complete your objective.

**measley** · 02-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Ben

as an addition to this topic:
This also should apply when an entire team is slayed by an admin because the admin feels that the team is not following his orders. Especially when the admin is on the opposing team.

It feels very dictator like on this server in many instances and it seems to be getting worse by the day, not better. People dont play here in order to be barked at and chastised. They play for the tactics and TEAMWORK. Teamwork swings both ways, from the admin on down.
Teamwork does not mean ordering people around, playing big boss man and when they don't do exactely what you want you slay them. this is not Iraq under Saddams regime.

This needs to change as it is severely demoralizing many players.

I'd just like to say that I feel the same way as Ben on this issue, and I'm sure there are several others. I don't want to turn this into an admin bashing thread, but rather a discussion on how to make things better.

The fact is stuff like this drives people away.