Tonk

i hear/see multiple people complaining that admins are on the server, doing what (the admin thinks) is right.... picture the server without any admins on the server.... thats like saying new york would be better without cops

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BonesTG

this is what i'm talking about public protection. Everyone here wants you to discuss THE SAME PROBLEM WE ALL ARE HAVING offline and allow all these injustices to continue.

let me put this a little more clearly....

TG ADMINS, You're personal conduct policies for administrating servers are NOT WORKING and PISSING GOOD PEOPLE OFF. You're no longer just pissing off new players. In fact, i think less new people are offended and more members are getting upset.

THIS IS NOT A GOOD PRACTICE.

It is time to turn your focus on administrative issues. Cut the number of admins in half or something. It's too clouded, and everyone's judgements are scrambled.

Apophis

I have gotten VERY few complaints (IE: 2) that have followed the SOPs up to me and have landed in my inbox. They are both surrounding the same incident and I am looking into both. When you say "WE ALL", I think I need to read that as "a few of the newer players" because I am 100% certain that the majority of players on the server do *not* have this issue.

The real problem is when new players refuse to follow the SOPs and let the admins, game officer, and myself do our jobs to resolve them. There has been a recent influx of new(er) players that seem to think we should modify the way we run our servers and community to suit them rather than taking the time to actually FOLLOW the SOPs to resolve issues such as this.

Believe me, they ARE taken seriously when they escalate up the chain and we do, and have in the past, taken action against admins that are abusive in their power and/or abusive to players.

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Trooper

Having bad admins at TG doesnt go well for the community. No one is getting paid to admin our servers, most admins if not all are paying Members of the community. I personally have never had an issue with any admins, been kickd a few times and chatting with the admins and all was cleared up. I was in the wrong and changed my game play to fit the server. As potshot said, if an admin is wrong they gladly apologize.

Most of the CSS players are young adults and do not have time to mess around on pubbie servers. We join up for a great game and when you have a few not following the rules it makes it no fun. So they get kicked, they have ample opportunity to explain their side and will always be heard.

Im not sure that because a few players have issue with our rules and admins dealing with them is gonna cause the server to loose population. If anything the server is exploding with members. The last 3 nights its been full of SMs, something is going right. I personally am tired of these kind of bashing threads, either play by the rules or move to the next server on the list, We arent forcing you to play here.


Another thing to remember is if you wear the TG tag, you dont get warnings. Wearing the tag means you understand the rules and will follow them.

Vulcan

This thread is not for flames or to post issues you have, start another thread or PM as appropriate.

Xplosive, if there is an issue, you KNOW how to handle it. What's the problem? If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

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SloppyJoe

More advice:

Set aside some time to actually read and understand what is being presented.

First of all, by clearly displaying that a player hasn't read something usually shows a few things:

1) They are right right right and choose to selectively ignore certain things that may be counter to that. This just shows that these types of players want the world to operate according to them and put blinders on if it doesn't fit their picture. Hard to work with that. Don't be one of them.

2) Before responding they haven't taken the time to read or understand what was said, this shows that such a player isn't really interested in participating in a community but rather blurt out their points without reading from others, kind of like having a one way conversation. This shows that some players are only interested in just getting on the server and playing and when something interrupts that, they are willing to do less than minimal in addressing an issue, just blurt out some stuff for the sake of trying to get back to playing. One thing that admins don't care too much for is banging their heads over and over having one way conversations, it tends to push them away from listening. This goes for any conversation in your life; if you want people to listen to you, you need to show them that you are listening to them as well.


For example, for some of the responses in this thread that didn't care to read or respect this, Ask yourselves; "If I don't read, participate, or show that I can respect directions, why should the admins?" How fair would that be? Fortunately for players, the admin staff here does not lower themselves to this, we do put extra attention in to read carefully. We do respect and follow direction and not just do what we want to "make points" (if we did, imagine how long that would last?).

If you don't have time at the moment to read something thoroughly, make some time later to read it before responding. I often see threads that I very much would like to respond to right then and there but know I don't have time to read it thoroughly and I dog-ear the thread to come back to when I do have time to participate fully and not just blurt down a reply with 1/2 the info and at the same time showing that I obviously didn't read things.

If you do read, and don't understand something. Ask for clarification and get your understanding straight before leaping to conclusions. Just like I said already, it shows certain things to see responders jump to a response that clearly shows that they didn't get what was being said.


As far as,
I don't know how to say it, but try to understand your fellow human beings. All the admins here have been chosen because they have a solid understanding of TG PCS and have a the capacity to perform admin functions. While some admins may be more liberal and some more conservative in nature, "Admins are not robots." Yes, we may make different calls, imagine that? Shocking.

Now the other part of that quote. According to another inappropriate responder in this thread, there are consistency issues. Well that's natural. Most players on the server understand that, and don't freak out so much if and when it happens. I don't think we really want to have 2,000 explicitly laid down nitty detailed rules about which ledge or railing is realistic or how far in CSS "units" you can be from objectives, etc. Admins generally go with the spirit of PCS. And yes, given the different people behind the admin tag, there may be some different rulings in-game. And yes, it is a trade-off between having a huge list of hair splitting rules to bog down the administration and a more open interpretive admin team. But if a spot that is common and repetitively becomes an issue for inconsistent rulings, the appropriate thing to do is PM an admin or the GO and shoot for some sort of resolution regarding it.

Admins do talk to each other. And I have not see -one- discussion presented where a player asked for a ruling about a spot or anything. So bringing up these issues as fuel to another fire or in a public thread without respecting the rules just goes to show...

More advice: Know your surroundings. Just like knowing some basic things about human beings, realize that you are in a community. I know a lot of people that come to TG CSS come for the snazzy maps, the full servers, to play play play. Guess what? TG is not a server farm, it is a community. Be prepared to participate in that community. If you can't or don't have time, maybe being part of a community is not a good fit for you. That's why players are encouraged to participate and feel out TG before committing to becoming an SM. More advice: If you threw in your 8 bucks for the prime intention of getting a reserved slot and then have problems and think your SMship is a passport to override or disregard problems of fitting in, following procedure, or taking time to be a community participant, chances are this decision was made prematurely.

It seems like the first problem lies in communication. More advice, before making claims involving "we all" or presenting grand injustices, show that you can follow procedure, that you have the time, patience, and maturity to handle the situation properly. Not showing that you can do this before raking issues publicly will only lead to "public protection" being a bandwagon of players that show they don't follow procedure and don't understand some of the basic concepts of taking the time to participate in the community. By running in to defend the other poster in this thread before knowing the details or even if that poster has himself followed procedure only screams out that you have some sort of agenda or personal issue you want to shoutcast and escalate (like Driver Dan punching the cop) without regards. Advice: Don't do that, it's too obvious.


I really don't know how to point out some of these basic ideas any better. You are dealing with people. You are in a community. The community has rules for good reasons. The procedures are there, not obscurely tucked away, for players to access. Communication is key, if you have a problem, communicate it appropriately FIRST. If you don't really know what these things mean or involve, set aside some time to really think about it.


----

Now, I've taken the time, and a large chunk of it, to respond to players that obviously haven't. That's part of my human personality. Some would even ask me why I bother to give time and respect to other people that don't reciprocate, I don't know why. I guess I like to try. And with this post here, I've tried a lot. If players still don't get it or take the time to try to get it, before all this "injustice" barking without respecting the procedures in place and what it takes to be a community member and not just a server resident, then bark away, be a Driver Dan.

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Delta

X, you're my buddy, I like you. Don't take this the wrong way. BUT. I don't understand.. If you all know the SOP's, etc., then why in the hell are you making a thread? There is a procedure for taking care of these kinds of things. I have seen four total complaints on the forums, two of which just joined and automatically posted. They were dealt with as such. Two in this thread, X and Bones.. Please refer to my previous statement, and I suggest you re-read the SOP's. This discussion shouldn't still be going.

XploSive

yea yea, I've already sent a PM. I was just angry cuz I had just been slayed for doing nothing wrong and I came on the forums (intending to write a PM) but instead I saw this thread and I saw people talking about new members having trouble fitting in and I was like "well damn, I'm not new and I'm getting kicked left and right for things I've always done and never been told were wrong" and I just kind of jumped on the bandwagon. I apologize for making my problems/concerns public.

Trooper

No worries. Its not that we don't want communication on the site or even want to shut people down. It just goes better for everyone if its handled privately and in an adult matter.

sparhawkxx

Sloppy for President very nice post bro. I love reading your statements. X and Bones, how about we plant or rescue a bomb huh? LET'S PLAY!!

P.S. usually after I post it gets shut down. I guess its like the goofy alert

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Chronic Zero

Seems like i wasn't the only one, How's those SOP's working btw?

Trooper

Cant let a dead horse lye can you. Lets see TG is 5+ years old, and its only grown exponentially since other games have been added. So id say they are doing great. Every night most TG servers are packed and more are wanting in. CSS was TGs first game, Apophis has really done a nice job at it.


Remember TG isnt the only server out there, play by our rules or find a new one.

SloppyJoe

The SOPs work pretty well for those that like to play teamwork and objective oriented play in a realism setting. For players that don't get it or having trouble pushing the primer ideals to mold it into something it's not will of course have problems with it. Of course improvements can be brought up, bearing these factors in mind. But I'd expect that those types of suggestions would come from players that can present them as such and back it by rationale and experience and a willingness to work through the established system rather than try to go around it. Driver Dan spray painting his point will just show he's an egocentric type that wants to cry out for the sake of crying out and doesn't much care or have the time, patience, or insight to work things out.

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whistler

This is turning from an educated, well-thoughtout post into bickering back and forth. Before it escalates any further, I'm just going to go ahead and close it. Let's not forget Sloppy's original post and the message conveyed within.

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TheBigC

Bump. Please read this and understand what is said here in this thread.

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