ednos

Earn this on a regular basis. The game gets a lot more fun when you have strict organization on your team.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

† Disciple †

Blackadder : Tell me do you ever stop bullying and shouting at the lower orders?
Wellington : NEVER! There's only one way to win a campaign shout, shout and shout again.
Blackadder : You don't think that inspired leadership and tactical ability have anything to do with it?
Wellington : NO! It's all down to shouting. WAAGGHH!

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.tritone.

FWIW, I really do try to keep things as organized as possible, (with the exception of some sunday-morning games riddled with hysterical laughter and fransan acting a fool).

There are only a few maps that I feel completely comfortable organizing tactics around and if I'm not I try to get someone who is to take the lead. I hate going a whole map with a completely unorganized team. Last night on office is a good example. The CTs were doing an okay job of communicating, but that's about it. No entry strategy.

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Potshot

It's hard to make very complex plans in CSS, because one death either way can make or break the teams strategy, when, for example, in the BF franchise, all you need to do is hold the enemy off for the extra 20 seconds, have your dead teammate respawn, and continue with whatever you were doing. The maps are also so much more diverse, and if one player plays a certain part well on one map, he might not be as succesful in a similar role on another map.

PCS is almost as much an individual game as a team game, and going through with a strategy isn't always that simple. Sometimes individual players will have to make their own decisions, and they might not always play well with what the team's strategist had in mind. The teams have to adapt very fast, and making a solid strategy before seeing what the enemy is doing is extremely hard, almost impossible. Because of the individual differences between players, what might work well on paper probably will not work when executed.

I've noticed that the only time you can really make good, complex plans is when you have skilled, balanced team players, and because you'll rarely have a team full of PCS-standard men, you usually have to come up with less complex, simple, and flexible plans to fit in with a team of more casual players.

.tritone.

There are definitely two different flavors of TG. During the day or on other off hours you're going to have a server not 100% full and mixed skill levels. During evening primetime it's almost completely full with regulars with the stray non-reg player here or there. During primetime it's easy to build complex strategies and those are the times that make TG as much fun as it is.

The off hours are always a struggle because you've got people who just aren't that good, are new to the server and are learning the rules, or just plain don't care and there isn't an admin around to fix that.

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Potshot

I guess, I wouldn't know. But still, the average regular will not be as devoted to nothing but the objective as a PCS player. I'm not excluding myself, I'm not exactly PCS material myself, and I'm not always that easy to lead.

ednos

You have a point. I find it much easier to make effective plans when I know most or all of the players on the team. However, if you know that two or three of them play together a lot or are in the same clan, but you only know one of them, you can put them in a group (we call these "fireteams"). In fact, leadership gets so much easier when you split a team into two or three groups with individual "immediate" objectives, which converge into an intermediate objective, which then facilitates the accomplishment of an overall objective. The "intermediate" and "overall" objectives are much closer together on the offensive side of a demolition map, but you get the point.

Also, speaking of plans on paper, one of the most effective things I've tried is actually writing down drafts of a plan in the notebook I keep at my desk. I always use two or three groups, plan for different play styles and skill levels, make backup plans for deaths, and hope that the map I planned it for comes up in the rotation. (Note: if you plan for cs_italy_tactik2, you can count on it being played if Ben or Whistler are on the server. Also, de_piranesi seems to come up a lot, and it's a simpler map to try things out on, not to mention that most people know it.)

You can still make solid and complex plans with casual players as long as they're willing to follow orders. Also, a good plan (in my experience) has a US Constitution-like clause in it that allows for a complete rewrite in the event of an emergency. Usually I allow for that if a primary fireteam is wiped out. Ideally, though, Jenume isn't on the other team so you don't have to worry about getting completely owned.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

ednos

These are the best hours for experimenting with strategies, I've found, since people on at the odd hours are more willing to try crazy ideas, and experimenting with extremes lets you more accurately judge realistic portions (read Robert A. Heinlein's "Friday" for a great example dealing with politics). Also, these can be really fun for developing endgame tactics, when it gets down to the two-on-two matches.

As far as the people who "just plain don't care", well, the best solution I've found is to message the current players aside from the rule breaker in private and tell them to switch servers (we have two of them).

__________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Ben

PLans, especially the tricky ones, DO work and should be employed. If you think that you do not know how to plan, take time, think it over, think how you can outsmart your enemy and then announce your plan.

This server gives you plenty of time to formulate and execute a solid plan. BUT, remember, if you make a great plan and your entire team gets wiped out in the first minute after you start, DONT GIVE UP.

Sh*t happens so roll with it. You learn from mistakes and sometimes there is nothing you can do but try again.

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A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it.
All I ask for is communication

sparhawkxx

Yeah Everyone reading this if your not trying to plan please do. Its ok to steal a plan that say Ednos used the day before. Or even modify it. Start small by saying lets have the top 3 go here at this time and the bottom four start the distraction or whatever. Whomever is the leader an is in charge tell your group what to do, don't ask.

If you have comms and someone butts in and says i'm gonna go snipe here while you all go there tell them I don't think so. Anyone playing by the rules and those that enforce them will have back up. This is mature play lets work together to help the new guy plan please. If it takes him/her 3 minutes to come up with a decent plan so be it. We don't need to rush every round or rush at all unless your team is in place to do so.

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FUN FUN

.tritone.

No kidding - What Spar said.
I have no idea what I'm talking about when I call plans, I just do it in a commanding voice and people actually attempt my crackpot idea. How about that?

For the curious, as follows is the extent of my educated strategery :

* Okay, guys, lets just rush it hard into A/B/First Set/Second Set

* Okay, I've got the scout, I'm going to head over to (scouting position). Let's get one guy with me and the rest to walk it around to A, B, and mid.

* We've got an even team, let's just split it #/# to A and B.

* Have we tried rushing yet? Let's just rush it hard into A/B/First Set/Second Set

* Let's just walk it slow and easy into A/B/First Set/Second Set

* HEY! You've got the bomb! What do YOU want to do this round?

* (As defensive team) __________, Where are you going?! Get back here and guard the hosties/bombsite!

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sparhawkxx

Also I know the Bomb calls the shots but If you have a leader that just called 2 rounds, why can't he continue barking out commands. If its not broke don't fix it. With that said entering a game as a PCS and watching the whole team run off after planing time with no orders/comms is untactical and should not be happening on our server.

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FUN FUN

Potshot

I'm not exactly the best strategist, but it would help if people actually listened to orders. I tend to keep my commands simple, because of reasons I mentioned previously, but half the time my teammates do something different. Simple commands like "Players A, B, C go to the left. D and E go to the right side, but DON'T ENGAGE! You'll work as back up. F comes to the mid with me, we scout the area out, then A, B and C rush. Got it?" will be accepted. 30 seconds later, 3 are with me at the mid, 3 are rushing the right side and we get flanked from the left.

ednos

That's a good start, but it's usually better to name people instead of say "a few" and "some" and "three and three". Alternately, what usually works is saying "top three" and such things.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Clefspeare

Only if the people are paying attention. I have had it happen many times when the person calling the plan will say "Top three go left and distract, bottom 4 will go to plant bomb at b" and people will end up going off doing whatever they want. A lot of plan calling does have to do with player willingness to cooperate or trying to understand the plan. But as was mentioned previously, by ednos I believe, you should have an idea of what to do in case someone does die or just isn't following the plan.