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11-25-2007, 09:44 PM #31
Re: Flanking
Wait, are we talking about the wisdom or the legitimacy of the tactic?
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede
Feel free to quote me. ~ Skylark
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11-26-2007, 01:23 AM #32
Re: Flanking
I'd say mostly the legitimacy. We're basing this on realistic and objective based gameplay, yes?
We can use the stupid italy example. If, for some inexplicable reason, the terrorists felt the need to flank the CT's, (let's say they have a full team and only 2 or 3 CTs left that have been spotted and are believed to still be at long hall), would it be legitimate - non banworthy - tactic to send a small squadron through mid to take them out? I'm not saying it's the best idea in the world as it puts in jeopardy players that could be bunkered down safely in defensive positions, but it has tactical merit. They would, however, need to be sent with specific instructions to either pull back or communicate and await further instruction if the opposition has relocated.
There is, however, a very strong tactical advantage in doing the unexpected. Taking a risk that the CTs would never imagine you doing to pull out the win. I certainly wouldn't make a habit out of sending defenders out into dangerous positions, but it'd be nice to know that I could if the situation allows for that sort of risk to be taken. If someone was at the end of long hall being a nuisance and they're the only ones left I should be able to whack him from the side. The knowledge of the risk factor involved makes the maneuver even MORE valuable to the executing team.
As with all tactical discussions, these things are subject to the specific scenario and I understand that. My question was primarily whether or not it would be acceptable to take that risk with players if it is done in an organized manner with a multi-person squadron fully capable of covering their rear and escape routes as opposed to a single vigilante with blood on his mind.
Or maybe I should just butt out and stop causing such a stink all the time.
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11-26-2007, 03:34 AM #33
Re: Flanking
This is a perfectly legitimate question. It is nice to spice it up sometimes, but I think it depends on the persons involved and the amount of communication involved. If someone is being a bother from down the hall... just don't poke you head out the window. Make him come to the hostages... Isn't that the whole point in the first place? For them to try and get the hostages?
Good question though, grounds for nice discussions.
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11-26-2007, 07:39 AM #34
Re: Flanking
When i play terrorist on italy i always order everyone to stay in the house, there are 3 entrances and with 7 players that is a very easy task to guard, this tactic will most often get you the victory with the occasional 2 man team sent out to hide in dark room.
Why people insist on running round to find the enermy i will never know, people need patience.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Winston Churchill
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11-26-2007, 11:08 AM #35
Re: Flanking
Because at a certain point, especially with Italy, it becomes a game of predicability. And if I'm a CT and I know the T's are holed up in the hostie house every round...then everyone on my team is loading up full on nades. Can't count how many times a hosties house camp has been broken that way. Sure there are only 3 entrances...but there's also nowhere to fallback to, nowhere to seek cover, and nowhere to escape. Fish in a barrel.
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11-26-2007, 11:53 AM #36
Re: Flanking
All good and different tactics, everyone is entitled to them as long as the objective remains the goal.
tritone with a number advantage, you could easily place a few guys lying in wait to ambush the few remaining ct's. Moving out of cover fire from your team and the objective is not an ideal tactic.
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11-26-2007, 02:18 PM #37
Re: Flanking
Flanking is not so much cut and dry when it comes to when to do it, or even when it's punishable or not. Until it is I can only offer my opinion and advice.
As it was mentioned here previously, leaving the cover of your teammates adds a significant risk. That risk has to be weighed against the possible benefits. Since the obvious goal of a flank is to catch the other team unaware, the question to answer is, can that be done effectively? Some things to help make that decision involve:
Do you know where all/most of the remaining OpFor are positioned? If you don't then it might be you taken unaware, instead of the targets you are trying to out-position.
Do you create a hole to the objective for the other team by flanking? This is a tough one. Depends on the map - the avenues the OpFor has to the objective. By you displacing to go around and get them in a flank, you may be making it easier for them to reach the objective. This also depends on if your team is still able to effectively cover those avenues and the objective with the displacement of one or even more flankers. This takes a good deal of map knowledge, teamwork, communication, and intel regarding where the opfor is and what the team together thinks they intend to do. Which is why flanking shouldn't be an easy decision or happen often.
Another question is of timing. I see a lot of "flank" maneuvers done at or close to round start. Beyond kill hunting, it's usually pretty clear that the defending team can't come close to answering the previous questions to validate a well thought out flank and at least to me, just looks like they are running off into the unknown to stir up the hornets nest and hopefully get some suicide kills in.
Then there is the "how many" question. How many of us and how many of them? If you are outnumbered, sending out flankers generally means you are creating holes. If you outnumber them, then it's generally more in your favor and your team can hopefully still effectively secure the objective with the loss of flankers. But here's an even trickier wrench in the works: If you outnumber them, they will usually be looking to try to even things up, i.e., pick people off, before moving in. So if they are skirting the map looking for stragglers and targets, do you think that increases your chance of catching them unaware or just helping them achieve their short term goal of picking off your team?
And of course, stealth is important. If you cannot be stealthy and/or don't have the time and patience and good intel which directs where you are going to slowly stealth to, don't even bother.
These are some of the reasons why it is hard to pin down not only when flanking is allowed, but good tactics. Several things should be merging: Teamwork, communication, timing, stealth, objectives not being compromised or holes created, knowing the map, enemy positions, and even enemy intent. Without most of those you might, at best, be doing a deathmatch style flank. With communication, you might be bordering on a teamwork style flank. But with a good mix of all, you are doing a teamwork objective oriented tactical flank.
Who said it was going to be easy?
PS: This is strictly about flanking, coming up around or behind. Playing it forward is something different. Which is also fun. See http://www.tacticalgamer.com/counter...d-defense.html about that..









"The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
- Wulfyn
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11-26-2007, 02:40 PM #38
Re: Flanking
Tut tut i hope your not going to be nading the hostage room :-pthen everyone on my team is loading up full on nades

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Winston Churchill
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11-26-2007, 02:56 PM #39
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11-26-2007, 09:48 PM #40
Re: Flanking
Yeah with all that said I hate to call out names but there are some who will do those flanks on comms but won't continue them.
Example, 2 CT left against 6 T's. The action starts and the CT are on radar. The T's are screaming but the 2 flankers are still going wide only to arrive at a 2vs2 round. So by all means I don't think just any Joe can do this. If you are captain you might wanna send strictly TG players.
You may not like this but if an admin detects any sign of killhunting he will slay before he lets you flank the opfor and ruin a very nice comeback for the CT. This is along the lines of what Sloppy says.
Yeah this is a game but it is a mature one and we don't want it messy. And if you think you understand and still get in trouble with admins just follow your SOP's and PM the admin. Goodluck on your flank
I hope I am the one that sees you first
FUN FUN
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11-26-2007, 10:16 PM #41
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Posts
- 1,233
Re: Flanking
Gotta love the flank strategy. Use it don't abuse it! Should only call a flank if you are 99% sure you've got your targets pinned down and can successfully pull it off. Otherwise its more or less a crapshoot. History will tell you that...
Pro tip: Don't make a lot of noise when you flank.
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11-27-2007, 12:53 AM #42
Re: Flanking
well from a terrorist perspective to be completely realistic they aren't the most tactically competent people in the world. I for one would never strap a bomb to myself ..... but as long as hosties are protected and remain the primary objective I don't think a scout team is a bad idea because knowing the enemy position is a very big tactical advantage. If you have a location on them kill hunting shouldn't be allowed but pushing up to positions that hinder their capability to advance should be. Using the Italy example: if the last 2 are down at the end of long hall a push over to bridge and into lower apartments would limit them to one section of the map and would create a tactical advantage for the T's.

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11-27-2007, 01:03 AM #43The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede
Feel free to quote me. ~ Skylark
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11-27-2007, 01:44 AM #44
Re: Flanking
pffft .... i like my stereotypical view of terrorist suicide bombers and teenagers armed with AK-47's. Though even if they were ex-military (ex-patriot?) not all militaries are tactically competent either .... imo

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11-27-2007, 02:29 AM #45
Re: Flanking
Most terrorists are well trained. They probably have a few good tacticians, but I doubt they have the crazy military capabilities that the United states has.
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