Re: dropping the bomb as a strategy???

**Atomic Dog** · 01-14-2008, 06:22 PM

His scenario is referring to a situation where there are only 2 CT's left to defend 2 bombsites. I do agree with him. 2 CT's defending one bombsite have:

a) a better chance of survival
b) stronger defenses should T's choose their bombsite to plant
c) a higher chance of success to defuse the bomb at the undefended bomb site should T's plant there rather than the site they're securing.

He's not saying call an entire team to one bomb site. This is very specific to a situation where the defense has already become extremely handicapped.

**ednos** · 01-14-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by sparhawkxx

A diservice? What about the planted bomb. You just did a diservice allowing the T's to set up their destructive toy. Thats still not objective. Also next time its 7 CT vs 2 T's we should call everyone to one site? Again if they plant at the opposite site you have a partial fail.

If your allowing the T to set up camp after planting a bomb your fighting 2 T's now. 1 is moble and the other is ticking away.

If you have seven Counter-Terrorists, you can *afford* to split them up between sites. If you have four Counter-Terrorists, you can *afford* to split them up between sites. No one should ever be left alone, though. That's a basic combat rule.

If the Terrorist plants the bomb and the Counter-Terrorists defuse it after eliminating the Terrorist, the team wins. If the Terrorist kills one Counter-Terrorist, plants, and then kills the other Counter-Terrorist, the team loses. My suggestions avoid the second scenario and lean towards the first. It's extremely unlikely that the single Terrorist will be able to eliminate a coordinated pair of Counter-Terrorists, whether attacking or defending. Any way you look at it, grouping the remaining two defenders is significantly better than the alternative.

**sparhawkxx** · 01-14-2008, 06:55 PM

You still allow him to plant and set up at range to take you out. He still has the drop on you and you have to defuse the bomb. It also depends on the map. Worst map for your plan is sidewalk.

Now if those ct are just outside looking at the site and closer to the opposite site maybe. In a closed up room where the T can't hide you have a better chance. Then you can just start and stop defuse. Even then that doesn't always work.

**Kulmar** · 01-14-2008, 07:18 PM

I agree with ednos, using the buddy system when a 2v1 situation occurs is a greater advantage. Having one guy getting picked off, then plant, then the other guy coming in getting picked off, plant, then the other guy dying is a bad situation. Sure the bomb is planted and that is part of the counter terrorist objective, but not the full objective. I like to think of the full objective as having the bomb defused OR not planted at all. Either way they both result in the same result, all terrorists dead and the bomb sites successfully defended.

Also having two men assault a bomb site is better than having just one come in. If one of the two assaulting goes down, the other should know where he died from and has that much better of a chance of killing the terrorist, and/ or defusing the bomb. Also if the terrorist goes to the bomb site guarded by the 2 Ct's, they have a 100% more chance of killing the terrorist instead of the one/one guard of the bomb sites.

The only downfall of this is that of which sparhawk pointed out, which was that the terrorist gets the bomb planted, defends it, and wins.

Sure, the one/one split could have worked in the situation but the two men assaulting and defending have a greater chance to assault successfully together, then to die alone.

**.tritone.** · 01-14-2008, 08:05 PM

Back on topic -

I do see value in dropping the bomb, but not for killhunting purposes. The only value to this is to avoid the Valve-ism of having the bomber appear on radar when spotted. I'm not sure how classy that is, but if you were in a situation where you needed to peek out and it was really important that they not know where the bomb was, I could understand setting it on the ground, peeking out, then picking it back up to move forward.

I certainly wouldn't make a habit out of it, but I can see some possibly scenarios when it would be greatly beneficial to the Terrorists.

Then again, knowing these servers, if you do get killed while the bomb is left on the ground or if you wander too far away from it and the CTs spot it you're probably going to get banned. Just make sure you say something really nice about the admin staff before you try this little trick.

**Conen.** · 01-14-2008, 08:25 PM

I do not know if this is also illegal, but I have seen that some people drop the bomb outside the spawn on losttemple_beta so that it is not spotted as everybody picks people off. then after they are weakened a bit and the CT's have consentrated to one side, a group of T's will go back and pick the bomb up to go around the weak side and blast out a bombsite for the plant. Is that ok?

**ednos** · 01-14-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by sparhawkxx

You still allow him to plant and set up at range to take you out. He still has the drop on you and you have to defuse the bomb. It also depends on the map. Worst map for your plan is sidewalk.

You're still talking about one Terrorist trying to take on a coordinated pair of Counter-Terrorists, who will definitely not use the same entrance and will assault the site at the same time. At worst, one Counter-Terrorist dies defusing if they can't find the Terrorist defender and the other one is able to eliminate him and continue the defuse. The only map I can think of that will fail this strategy is de_strata, where the Terrorists can get to the B bomb site before the Counter-Terrorists can and the distance from A to B is longer than the distance between the spawns. In this case, you'll have to find the defending Terrorist right away, or you won't have time to defuse when you get there.

**sparhawkxx** · 01-14-2008, 09:54 PM

What Conen said and dropping the bomb to bait the CT is still killhunting. Use all the time your given to pick off the CT.

**Vulcan** · 01-14-2008, 11:09 PM

yeah going into another topic there with number battles.

There is one problem with the idea of dropping the bomb with purpose of not having it spotted. Why? The bomber can sit back and not be spotted. If your last man, it makes no difference. Keep the bomb and come up with a better strategy to getting it planted.

**Plude220** · 01-15-2008, 01:05 AM

Only reasons you should drop the bomb.

1 Your bleeding out and cant stop it if your health gets too low around 4 or 2 pass it to someone else.

2 You die (of course your going to drop it)

3 If you had the scout from the round before chose to drop the scout or pass the bomb. Scouter shouldnt have the bomb he is for recon and picking off not planting.
Thats all I can think of

**Toy Poodle** · 01-15-2008, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Kulmar

I agree with ednos, using the buddy system when a 2v1 situation occurs is a greater advantage. Having one guy getting picked off, then plant, then the other guy coming in getting picked off, plant, then the other guy dying is a bad situation. Sure the bomb is planted and that is part of the counter terrorist objective, but not the full objective. I like to think of the full objective as having the bomb defused OR not planted at all. Either way they both result in the same result, all terrorists dead and the bomb sites successfully defended.

What Kulmar said is a good point about having the dual or multiple objectives. As a CT they should be preventing the bomb from being planted or exploded. If we go by this logic there are so many more strategies one or a group of people can to do end in success. But if we go by the thinking that everyone has that the objective is protecting the bomb site then the CTs should get slayed at the point the bomb was actually planted for they have already failed. Using this the same could be said about Terrorist. There objective shouldn't be just about planting the bomb but about ending in a successful detonation or easy access of said bomb site. This can be not just planting the bomb but protecting the bomb or slimming down the opposition before the bomb is planted or during the ticking of the bomb.

Now with the example I gave If there is only one T and AT LEAST 2 CTs it is going to be very hard to get into the bomb site let along planting the bomb. One the T doesn't know where the opfor is. The dropping of the bomb as a way to slim down obstacles would be acceptable only in the instance of reducing forces or recon. Saying this is killhunting is not so since so far there has been no idea of killhunting do to the objective. But now say that I have seen my opfor or have taken one out I now have a better idea of where I can easily plant and how I am able to do that. This is using this strategy towards the objective (also the only reason this works in the first place is because bomb shows up or is mentioned on CT side). Now say that after seeing one guy or killing one guy I stay there just to take out the other or the last guy this can now be considered killhunting.

One thing to keep in mind is that the bomb needs to be dropped in a place to where one you can easily access it to escape and two that it really should be near a bomb site to begin with. You can make the arguement that if I was next to a bomb site in the first place then why wouldn't you plant. Two reasons (also both already given), I don't know where the opfor is and if it is safe to plant there in the first place. This should be a legitimate strategy but not used all the time since it is very risky and should be a last resort if nothing else. When i did this on perenisi (i dont remember how to spell it atm) I had the higher ground but had no clue where my opponents where. Also I knew who I was against so it was a big help it letting me know that they won't easily get themselves killed. Well being the first time I tried this I made the mistake and threw the bomb on B side instead of on the A side near doors/exit routs or points of protection. My mistake.

Lets just keep in mind that if the objective is played as I believe properly then this could be a strategy and other good strategies could also be made with out confusion of people not knowing if it is illegal. Well this is just one way to put it or could be seen. I hope I shed some light and it has been good hearing what a lot of you think not just about this strategy but about the 2 CTs protecting one site and so forth.

Edit - Also i know this is long but it should be since this is a Tactics forum =P. Also when dealing with strategies we shouldn't just refuse ideas right away unless we specifically know that what we are dealing with is black and white. A situation like this is rare but it is more of a grey area and in most of combat it isn't just balck and white. Opening ourselves to think a bit before talking I believe we could get some more meat out of these topics and in turn come up with some really good tactics that will spice up our playing and destroy whoever we are against.

**Vulcan** · 01-15-2008, 02:42 AM

None of that has any influence on dropping the bomb. That part is clear and cut and the purpose you started the thread toy. If you'd like to start another debating the topic of how a bomb map should be played then go ahead but try to keep to one topic here or it will all end up in a big pool of mud.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-15-2008, 02:49 AM

You don't need to drop the bomb to probe defenses. In fact, I watched your attempt and it completely failed. CT's were on objective and didn't even see the bomb drop. If you run into resistance at one bomb site from one CT, then odds are the other is guarding the other bombsite (not always, he may be hiding). If you encounter them both, then you know the other site is defended and if you fall back, odds are one man may try to intercept you on the way to the other bomb site. All fair assumptions that aid in predicting CT movements on a bomb map. Throwing the bomb down adds a completely uneccessary element. You risk it being secured and, ultimately, your death.

Last night you could have had a better opportunity at planting if you had not dropped the bomb and ran around looking for an ambush alone. If you want an ambush, think smarter, don't do it alone.

**Clefspeare** · 01-15-2008, 03:25 AM

I think you fellows are getting a bit too riled up. This is turning into less of a debate about the topic into more of an argument.

I think the fact of the matter is this. When Poodle attempted this strategy, he had objective in mind and was not kill hunting. I personally wouldn't have attempted it myself, but it is easy to be seen as kill hunting. I think it would be smart to refrain from attempting such a strategy if you are the only one left.

I have done a strategy before that required dropping the bomb, but that is for a specific make during specific circumstances.

**Toy Poodle** · 01-15-2008, 03:45 AM

Yes it is very hard to get across both sides through the usage of text. The ideas are getting misconstrued and people are appearing angry. We will just end this thread saying that this strategy is a no no. Any other topic in this thread can be started in a new thread.

Lets lock this bad boy.

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