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Thread: Pre-nading

  1. #31

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    Re: Pre-nading

    If we're talking real life...

    Terrorists take hostages. OF COURSE they expect someone to be there. It's made obvious by the 2 APC the CT's have parked in the garage. They know where they're going to breach. They've invited the breach by the very fact they've taken hostages. It seems logical to me then to employ scare tactics and to protect that vital vital fish tank room at all costs.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Pre-nading

    Yes, I understand scare tactics, but I normally don't get scared, just annoyed. I need to be careful, this is going to turn into a thread about how covert needs to be editted. =p
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  5. #33
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    Re: Pre-nading

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Dog View Post
    It seems logical to me then to employ scare tactics and to protect that vital vital fish tank room at all costs.
    then why not let them takefish tank and mount a counter attack to take it back AND TO HOLD??

    but as a tactic thatll use your nades the way they should be used??

    if your sniper on the T side were to shoot the door open and the adjacent door opens at the same time and four flashes come flying in the door....at the same time flahses and breaches go into left (from T's perseptive) hallway, you cant take fish tank back????





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  7. #34

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    Re: Pre-nading

    You could also justify why shooting around a corner before you know anyone is there as relevant but this is not how we play. So i can't see any justification to extend that to nades either as a mere scare tactic.

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    Re: Pre-nading

    Quote Originally Posted by Clefspeare View Post
    Of course you "could" wait back a little bit for the buy time to pass, but then you have to take breaching at a slow pace, which is not always effective.
    This is the point I was making, the tactic is used just for this purpose. To stop the rush down and cause them to slow down. That's not exploitive, just use of good tactics, in my opinion. While I'm at it, why are we discussing something that causes the game to slow down, as bad? I think it's more than likely people just don't like rushing headlong into a live nade, when they should be moving slowly and watching for it. Just a thought...




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    Re: Pre-nading

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Dog View Post
    If we're talking real life...

    Terrorists take hostages. OF COURSE they expect someone to be there. It's made obvious by the 2 APC the CT's have parked in the garage. They know where they're going to breach. They've invited the breach by the very fact they've taken hostages. It seems logical to me then to employ scare tactics and to protect that vital vital fish tank room at all costs.
    Yes but would the terrorists throw a grenade there with no visual contact? Just because they know a breach is coming doesn't mean they know when.

    Let me see if I got this right. You can throw a nade as a distraction, provided it really is a distraction. You can throw a nade before you sweep into a room. You can throw a nade if you have strong reason to believe there are enemies there, either thanks to reports from teammates or from seeing/hearing them.

    So what are we arguing about? I think this one of those arguments you get sucked into just for the sake of arguing. if what I said is true(I'd like confirmation on that, wouldn't want to be spouting lies), the only situation you CAN'T throw a nade in is when you get no strategical advantage from the nade and you have no evidence there is anyone there other than "they could be!" I don't know about you guys, but I see those kind of "useless" nades so rarely that it really barely deserves notice.

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    Re: Pre-nading

    Potshot, odviously you haven't been on italy_tactics when I'm in the long hall as a T. I would use this all the time to slow the enemy down, as I have stated before.


    Oh, a side note about nades. Thanks for telegraphing your plans, it's a flash/smoke every time you attackers want to move. And now with this, you guys can't throw a nade unless you have a target, means no more distractions. Now, you have to "know" someone is there to distract before throwing it. Atleast how I'm reading it.

    The attackers have to have the ability to pre-nade an area. In escence it's how the attackers clear a room with a flashbang or HE. They don't go in the room first, to see if it needs to be naded. They toss the nade, then go in to see if they need to finish anyone off. Yet, to allow one side to do it and limit the other just doesn't seem balanced to me.

    Disclaimer: I'm not trying to overturn Vulcan ruling on this, just want to put it out for discussion.




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    Re: Pre-nading

    Wait, what's all this about *visual* contact? The grenade's primary use is attacking an enemy you *can't* see.
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    Re: Pre-nading

    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Potshot, odviously you haven't been on italy_tactics when I'm in the long hall as a T. I would use this all the time to slow the enemy down, as I have stated before.


    Oh, a side note about nades. Thanks for telegraphing your plans, it's a flash/smoke every time you attackers want to move. And now with this, you guys can't throw a nade unless you have a target, means no more distractions. Now, you have to "know" someone is there to distract before throwing it. Atleast how I'm reading it.

    The attackers have to have the ability to pre-nade an area. In escence it's how the attackers clear a room with a flashbang or HE. They don't go in the room first, to see if it needs to be naded. They toss the nade, then go in to see if they need to finish anyone off. Yet, to allow one side to do it and limit the other just doesn't seem balanced to me.

    Disclaimer: I'm not trying to overturn Vulcan ruling on this, just want to put it out for discussion.
    Apparently I don't exactly understand what you're after, or I've misinterpreted how to use the nade, but I don't see what the problem is. Defenders are allowed to pre-nade a room and then sweep in, unless I missed something. Just the same as attackers. If you have a reason to believe they are there, for example, you heard them or saw them there, it's fine to toss a grenade that way and not necessarily peek out, even if you don't have a visual at the moment.

    As for the italy example, if you have any reason to beleive they are there, go ahead and toss a grenade. It's enough if you heard a shot or footsteps, or if a teammate calls them out. You don't need to have 100% certain there's someone there.

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  19. #40

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    Re: Pre-nading

    When you refer to nading, this is HE grenades. If you want to refer to any other nades call them smoke or flash.

    Assuming that point, reread what i wrote and hopefully that will make more sense. Flashing a room is much different than grenading a room with high explosives.

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  21. #41

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    Re: Pre-nading

    Quote Originally Posted by ednos View Post
    wait, what's all this about *visual* contact? The grenade's primary use is attacking an enemy you *can't* see.
    qft!

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    Re: Pre-nading

    If T long hall spots them I nade them. Spoting them is hearing or seeing.

    If we got 7 CT's we can buy 7 smokes and try to draw nades. Why because you can throw nades at a threat. Smoke is a huge threat.

    Smokes and flashes get you around corners and into rooms without harming the innocent. They give and hide your position at the same time if used right. I see the counter measure the nade.

    I have been asked in game should I nade them? My next question on offense/deffense is did you see or hear them? If I get a no. My answer is save your nade for a target.

    The rest is chance I want to see and hear my enemy. Thats what makes us so tough as nails. We are in there fighting for our lives and can't make any mistakes. Now go nade a moving target damot!
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  25. #43

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    Re: Pre-nading

    You will be the first moving target spar :P

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    Re: Pre-nading

    Honestly I think it depends on every situation.

    Scenario #1) Attacker approaches a room which he feels is dangerous. Throws nade into room, kills defender, moves inside safely.
    Scenario #2) NEXT ROUND: Defender approaches the same room, and having been naded by the attacker in scenario 1 last round at about this time, throws a nade into the room, kills attacker, moves in safely.

    In scenario 1 and 2 we have basically the exact same behavior taking place by both attacker and defender, the only difference being the logic behind the attacks.
    In scenario 1, the attacker knows where his objective is, and he knows where the attacker is, therefor the space between these two points is logically where the defenders probably are. This, in my opinion, lends enough 'proof' for a good, solid HE room-clearing.
    In scenario 2, however, the defender (in realistic terms) only knows where the objective is and the defender. This basically means that logically his 'target' is somewhere between attacker spawn and the objective. Not exactly narrowing it down much. The only "evidence" he has at this point is his experience from a previous round. Since in reality, CTs and Terrorists don't dust each other off and replay attacks until one of them has won 7 times, evidence from previous rounds are "not admissible in court", so to speak.

    There are of course many other scenarios but these illustrate the difference between bullcrap pre-nading and room-clearing. At least this is the way I see it.


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  29. #45

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    Re: Pre-nading

    you guys all know the map de_industry right? its foggy and bombsite A is in a train yard. CT's spawn at bombsite B. There is a sewer system that leads from A to a vent entering bombsite B. You guys know which map im talking about??

    Well the T's start in somewhat the middle of the map. If they were to have 2 ppl pre-nade the middle alley they would surely wound, if not kill, a couple of CT's. The CT's MUST cross that alley in order to get to bombsite A. They have two choices. Either run past the alley hoping to only take minimal damage along the way or wait for the pre-nades and risk having the rest of the T team rush into an empty A bombsite.

    We are all familiar enough with the maps that we know how long it takes for the opposing force to reach a certain point. Pre-nades are nor fair because it IS explioting the map. We know the map layout and we are using it to our advantage. The problem is that we are not using the map for a strategic purpose, but rather for killhunting. I see no other reason for a pre-nade.

    Honestly, that is what nades are for. Xen, if you were to ask me for a nade on italy to make a black mark on the ground, i would not give it you. I would rather save it for a situation in which it would be useful. Besides, why would you want the enemy to know where you are. We all know the maps and most people expect someone to be watching the long hall anyways. If you really want someone to know you are there why not just type "im in long hall" so that the CT's could REALLY be on their toes looking for you. If you really have to throw something, why not a flash. If you throw a flash, you could quickly step out in order to confirm the existence of a rush. I dont want it to seem like i am attacking you xen, i am simply saying that scare tactics are a good waste of a nade.

    Pre-nading in order to "halt" a rush is the same as killhunting. You are throwing a nade, not a flash or a smoke, nades are very destructive and the true purpose is to cause damage/kill. You want halt a rush that may not even happen, then throw a flash. The nade you save can be used for the ACTUAL area the enemy will be rushing . Unless footsteps are heard or you have actual evidence to support the fact that there is going to be a rush (and by evidence i do not mean SUSPICION), save your grenades. I promise you that they will be more useful when you KNOW there are enemies around as opposed to hoping/praying they are there.
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