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Discussion: Counter-Strike Source / Counter-Strike - Tactics Discussion - Pre-nading - Is pre-nading and area or choke point considered a tactic or does it fall in
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08-11-2008, 08:42 AM #1
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Pre-nading
Is pre-nading and area or choke point considered a tactic or does it fall in the catagory of blind firing? I seem to find the nade as I am getting to my position more often than not. Perhaps it is too gray of an area to get a definative answer. But it seems the ladder to me.
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08-11-2008, 10:06 AM #2
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Re: Pre-nading
Fair, no doubt. The main difference with nades and guns is that you have one nade, at most a couple if someone died near you. With an AK, you have 120 bullets that can potentially be placed in to those dark corners or through wooden walls. Choosing when to use that one nade requires strategic planning, if you want to make it count. Throwing a nade in before you run in is not the same as running in spraying the corners, because it gives you a tactical advantage, other than a dead Terrorist. Pre-nading is as effective as a flash in certain situations, moreso in others. It's not entirely unrealistic either. Not that it ever was realistic for CTs to use frag grenades in houses, museums, labs, and whatnot. At least in WWII tossing a grenade behind corners in trenches was a completely normal tactic.
In short, you've got 4 nades for the entire team to use. If you use one pre-nading, it can tip the scales to your favor. But if no one was there, you just lost 1/4 of the team's most useful tools for nothing.
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08-11-2008, 04:37 PM #3
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Re: Pre-nading
I understand totally what Pot is saying and agree. But in CSS if asked while I'm in command I will say no. Thats just my opinion. I feel just throwing a nade if you hear nothing or see nothing is a blind chance. I would rather the team hear and use coms or see the enemy to send in those nades. Work together on them you will nail the enemy more times then none.
And please give a heads up any time you use any nade even a smoke.I know it calls automatic but the extra heads up will help the team know when and where you are throwing.
Oh sorry but can we get your opinion or ruling on this Vulcan? I tried to find this in an older thread but didn't see anything on it.FUN FUN
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08-11-2008, 05:23 PM #4
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Re: Pre-nading
The problem comes when we begin to realize this is a game and not reality. We try to make this realistic but we still get to reset every round and try again.
The Pre-nade or Pre-flash starts coming in handy when either side realizes that the other team is winning by doing a "Strategic Rush". To deter them for doing this is a pre-flash or pre-nade which halts the other team in their tracks and forces them to come up with a real "Tactical Plan".
So in the real world I don't see it happening but in the TG real world if it needs to be done!!! Use it...adapt and overcome...
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08-11-2008, 06:20 PM #5
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Re: Pre-nading
flash rooms before you enter and nade them. That's standard. Ofcourse it's nice if you know someone is there but in the event you have to enter a room or area before you find contacts, flash and nade it. It doesn't make sense to walk in "dark".
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08-11-2008, 09:23 PM #6
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Re: Pre-nading
A couple of other thoughts. I agree with a lot of said above, but just to add some spice to the conversation.
You have 4 nades, would you want to potentially waste them just to prenade a room?
Would a CT want to risk damaging property just to prenade? A flash, sure, but a high explosive shrapnel grenade? Especially in a place where damage could be bad? Museum (expensive displays), control rooms, etc...."Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
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08-12-2008, 12:10 AM #7
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Re: Pre-nading
I do not see anything wrong with throwing a HE grenade to an area early in the round... it's a chance toss and if thrown correctly can cause serious damage and/or delay to opfor's movement. Definitely not blind firing imho.
People need to realize that blind firing is firing blindly.... as in thru walls, doors, and floors. Throwing a grenade is not firing whatsoever.
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08-12-2008, 12:57 AM #8
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Re: Pre-nading
gogeta thats lawyer talk. i think he means this as in if a team rushes through door A every round, is it ok to throw a nade before you see them come in.
as far as nading a door that gets rushed every round is concerned... i dont like it very much. its not necessarily textbook blindfire, but its pretty close. nading on offense to breach a room is totally different. in the end.... is it part of the TG style, no. is it worthy to enforce.... i doubt it. just something we need to deal with.
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08-12-2008, 11:23 AM #9
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Re: Pre-nading
Would a CT bring a frag grenade on a mission in the first place? Usually they'd use concussion grenades, or stun grenades, but I've never heard of a team going into an office, museum, or a nuclear plant with a bunch of fragmentation grenades. Besides, I've rarely seen anyone waste a grenade. People use it to push any potential enemies a bit back to get to a better spot, or nade a corner when there's a chance of a rush, or maybe just to cover one way while they clear the other way. Just because it seems like it was a random throw, it might not have been. Same as a flash, sometimes we flash rooms that are empty, but if we hadn't flashed the room and there had been someone in it, we'd all be dead. If someone's stupid enough to toss a nade when it gives him no strategical advantage, well, I say let him. Making a rule against actually wasting a nade seems like a pretty stupid idea.
Originally Posted by Skylark
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08-12-2008, 09:50 PM #10
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Re: Pre-nading
Curses! Out-logiced! Originally Posted by Potshot
"Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
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08-16-2008, 05:22 AM #11
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Re: Pre-nading
Though not so common, I think with actual counter terrorism units (as opposed to swat or something) a frag would be a perfectly acceptable thing to bring on a mission. Then again, I don't think seal team 6 has to buy their own weapons. Originally Posted by Potshot
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08-16-2008, 08:48 AM #12
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Re: Pre-nading
Well, if I remember correctly, the kind of frag grenade that's in CSS actually has a potential kill radius of around 40 meters. That is, shrapnel can still fatally injure someone at that range, even if the chances of getting hit aren't as high as when standing on it. A real CT would never even think of taking one of these babies out in a hostage mission, and it just seems rather counter-productive to blow up half the room with these to prevent the Terrorists from doing the same thing with c4. But why are we arguing about realism in CSS? I don't think there's much of a chance to get a realistic version even with all the mods in the world. Let's just focus on keeping the tactics and strategies as close to realistic as possible. Originally Posted by Adiventure
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08-16-2008, 08:44 PM #13
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Re: Pre-nading
You're completely right on that, and I as a strategy it is acceptable for gameplay. Originally Posted by Potshot
On the grenade specifically (m67?), I think it has a blast radius of about 45' and a theoretical killing distance of up to 700'. The main logistical problem I see is that any explosive that powerful would likely be hitting people through soft walls (wood, plaster, even sheet rock), so I imagine it would be too risky on most precision room clearing without impeccable intel. With counterstrike, it is more reasonable since grenades have such reduced effectiveness. As you seem to be saying there's gotta be a line between realism and gameplay.
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11-07-2008, 09:21 AM #14
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Re: Pre-nading
well here are my two cents about ths subject: Originally Posted by Gogeta
Blind grenades are defined as randomly tossing into locations where no threats have been identified or into locations to clear but FAILING to following the grenade into that location.
so then in our "tactical realism" server, why would we allow such an act to be allowd? were not talking flash's or smoke, we are talking about stuff the blows up and casues serious damage to your team, yourself, and to HOSTAGES!!!
would a HRT team throw fragmentation gernades in some of the places that we as a community do?? im not trying to get on a soap box nor have i seen this a REAL problem, but i have been noticing it. and i understand the point that some will make that "its still a game" but isnt the pourpse of TG is to play in a near "simulated" enviorment???
please i would love to hear more thoughts on this
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11-07-2008, 12:41 PM #15
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Re: Pre-nading
Would a HRT team even have a HE grenade on a mission? Besides, there are 4 grenades per team at most, if you decide to toss one at a location that's empty, you've just wasted one of the best tools in the game for nothing. I rarely see anyone using one just because. It just hurts you more than it does the other team to toss one randomly. Originally Posted by Snake_Doc
Also, remember that you rarely know what the other team is thinking. A seemingly useless nade could be tossed because of bad intel, or maybe they thought they saw a shadow. It could be a miss, maybe the thrower wasn't even aiming in that direction, but it bounced. Or perhaps the team was trying to lure you out. They might have even tossed that one to pick up another one, effectively stopping you from using the nade at a later time.
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