i have a question for everyone. if I can manage to sneak up behind an opposing player with out being seen, is it wrong to knife him? I know about the "empty clip knifing rule", but here is my argument.
When you need to break out a window or glass in css, using your knife is the better choice due to the fact that when you swing your knife you don't show up on radar. The same thing happens when you kill someone with a knife, you don't show up on radar. Yes the opposing team does see their teammate go down on radar, but they don't see you on radar. For all they know, the now dead teammate got killed by a scout or another long range weapon. Giving you the advantage of being closer than they think. Thus allowing you to utilize the element of surprise.
What are your thoughts on this?
"Well Jayne, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
Personally I don't have a problem with this, if you have taken the time to get yourself into a position in which using the knife is a more viable option than shooting, I would say go ahead. I'm sure that in the military you would use a combat knife when trying to be stealthy. However, you could argue that here we are dealing with counter terrorists and not conventional military forces.
In my opinion they would be less likely to use a knife, instead opting for a non-lethal method for detaining the terrorist. However, in CSS we are given the knife. Surely we are expected to use it? I agree that in general game play switching to the knife when you have both your primary and secondary weapon ready to fire is wrong, as no soldier or CT in their right mind would bayonet or knife charge an enemy in the middle of a firefight when he has a perfectly good weapon to use. The situation you outline in my opinion is the right time to use the knife, when not in direct combat and trying to preserve a stealthy and unopposed situation, without escalating the violence used in rescuing the hostages or disarming the bomb (your primary mission). This is entirely realistic as a CT team would, in general, prefer to get in and out without a major firefight therefore minimising the risk to themselves and any civilians. So, in reality the CT's would rather detain or kill the terrorist in a way that is not simulated in CSS. The developers have given us the knife instead of hand-cuffs or CS gas in a way for eliminate an opponent without any lethal force, it is just not possible to detain a terrorist in CSS.
From a terrorist point of view it doesn't really apply, I'm sure most terrorists would knife a police officer if they got the change to. Killing him without warning his comrades, to be honest if a CT player has got himself in a position were he is away from the rest of his team and is not aware enough to notice the Terrorist sneaking up behind him he deserves to be knifed. Although if playing terrorist you are less likely to be sneaking around, this is relative to the CT team of course.
Furthermore from a game play point of view if you have managed to outflank an opponent and approach them to within knifing range without being noticed, I wouldn't mind being knifed. In some respects I would prefer to be knifed than shot, because it really lays down that I needed to be more aware and not have such a tunnel vision.
In conclusion I personally think that the use of a knife for eliminating an enemy while maintaining stealth (which as you have pointed out is encouraged by the game by not marking you on the radar) is both realistic and fair. I feel that there is a clear distinction between charging someone with a knife while you have a gun to fire (which is outlawed rightly by the 'empty clip before knifing' rule) and this situation. I would, however, argue that if you are noticed while going for a knife kill you should swap to your primary weapon and fire.
Wait, am I missing something? Because last I checked shooting did not put you up on radar, and killing with the knife gave its own kill icon. From that you can instantly tell that the enemy was right next to the dead teammate when he knifed. Besides, 90% of the time, aiming properly and getting a good shot on him is more reliable with the added bonus of not giving away your location every time you do it.
regardless of radar, typically you don't want to be doing this because it involves me play not teamplay. This is not the example we want to set for other players on the server. In some desperate or unusual circumstances yeah you can do it and it's not a problem.
I'm not referring to using the knife all the time, but as a stealth kill to not be detected. Wouldn't this fall under the "Distinguished Special Ops" ribbon? Isn't it still team play if you are on the attacking team, and your team knows what you are doing?
"Well Jayne, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
Again, you can't really kill someone "stealthily" with the knife. The moment you knife someone the whole enemy team knows exactly where you are. Besides, I spent some time paying attention to the radar thing yesterday, I'm almost 100% sure you do not show up on radar simply for firing.
Last edited by Potshot; 06-13-2010 at 02:45 PM.
Again, you can really kill someone "stealthily" with the knife. The moment you knife someone the whole enemy team knows exactly where you are. Besides, I spent some time paying attention to the radar thing yesterday, I'm almost 100% sure you do not show up on radar simply for firing.
That's correct. You show up on the radar when someone gets you under their crosshair. Typically this would show a name under the crosshair but that is disabled on our server.
Well no, you don't. However, the death of a teammate DOES show up on radar, and combined with the kill icon in the upper right, it's as good as you showing. There simply isn't a situation in which you can kill a person a with a knife without alerting his team to your EXACT location.
If someone is asking where they went down, someone ultimately answers and gives the position most of the time. However the reason that this is not allowed is because it becomes contagious and degrading to gameplay. We've been down the road already. It's this way because there isn't a real tactical advantage to doing it except to look cool and it often fails, If you want to see it action just head to your nearest pub server. With the experienced degradation of gameplay we know happens this was discussed many years ago and many times. We decided it's an emergency use tool to keep gameplay on par with this communities expectations.
i thought you did show up on radar every time you fire even if every shot hits its target
You must be thinking of Call of Duty, the radar shows rarely any info in that regard. Like V said only way to get you on the radar is with a cross-hair pointer.
However I can see the steal knife being used in "maybe" 1 or 2 situations.
ie: If you are the last one alive and you are up against 2 enemies and you want to give your position away momentarily to one of the two enemies so you can do a flank maneuver to go for a set of hosties or something like that. But in saying this It is very doubtful that most people would even think of such a "strategic" action on the whim.
however those is a rare case. also it would be hard to pull off without being called out by the knifed player.
Last edited by Extinct; 06-15-2010 at 06:42 PM.
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. ~ Jimi Hendrix
And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. ~ Plato
In the stealth mode knife he is talking about, NO, I don't see a problem with it. "not a admin though" I have used this tactic several times before and as previously stated, this happened only a dozen times "Since source release"
I understand keeping this rule, and I am in favor of it, but as with all "issues" on the server- it's open to interpretation by most people. Like everything else, there is a "Tactic" in almost every situation. The knife in front of a enemy while ammo is available is nonsense of course. He isn't talking about that though. I have knifed in order to make sure the other team doesn't hear firing of my loud AK/M4, hoping that they didn't see on radar it was a knife. I say yes to the stated situation, no to knifing in general.
my 2 pennies!