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Discussion: Counter-Strike Source / Counter-Strike - Tactics Discussion - CS_Office - Sorry didn't see that there was a second page of replys before I posted this.
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02-15-2005, 06:08 PM #31
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Re: CS_Office
Sorry didn't see that there was a second page of replys before I posted this. Looks like several peole made this point already.
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02-15-2005, 07:40 PM #32
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Re: CS_Office
Wrong. The terrorists could arrange a filing cabinet to block every single entrance to the hostages. Combine this with the fact that hostages can get hung up on them and Wyzcrak's rule would prohibit blocking passageways with filing cabinets (according to him). I don't thing that the rule, as written, covers the fact that hostages only occasionally get hung up on them, I think the word "potential" is in the wrong spot.
Originally Posted by Buck Fush
I think this covers it better: Originally Posted by Wyzcrak's Rule
You may not move furniture or other map entities by any means to any location which places the map in a state which potentially eliminates the ability to complete the objective.
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02-15-2005, 07:42 PM #33
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Re: CS_Office
Well, one of our members is saying that it is an issue. I've seen hostages get hung up in one direction before, but there's always been a different way to go. The potential for this to become an issue is definitely there. I'd like to just say that it's discouraged and not worry about a rule. Originally Posted by Tempus
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02-15-2005, 08:32 PM #34
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Re: CS_Office
As is my wont, I said exactly what I meant. Originally Posted by IceCold
You can move things all day long. Block passages to your heart's content. The moment you place the map in a state which "completely eliminates the potential to complete the objective," you're out of line. Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
There's no "potential" when it comes to a "true" or "false" here. Either you have completely eliminated the potential to complete the objective or you have not. Originally Posted by IceCold
It's the player's responsibility to know if she's done this. Once she has (eliminated all routes to the objective), she's out of bounds.
Hopefully I've been more clear than before.Steam Community? Add me. | Join #tacticalgamer | Search Results Legend | New Posts Forum Filter | Postbox Toggle | Live Thread Review | One Line Results | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup
Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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02-15-2005, 08:37 PM #35
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Re: CS_Office
You don't run up against a closed door over and over and over again with hostages and then blame the Ts for closing the door. Originally Posted by IceCold
If you know hostages get stuck on furniture, avoid furniture.
As long as there's an open route somewhere, it's game on, I say.
I like people doing things to make my job more difficult but still possible. I think it adds a lot to gameplay as long as you don't become too complacent in what you know.Steam Community? Add me. | Join #tacticalgamer | Search Results Legend | New Posts Forum Filter | Postbox Toggle | Live Thread Review | One Line Results | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup
Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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02-15-2005, 09:42 PM #36
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Re: CS_Office
Would restricting the Ts to buying only one frag grenade per player (no more spawn re-buys) mitigate this problem?
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02-16-2005, 04:47 AM #37
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Re: CS_Office
I don't think so. The only way that all entrances could be blocked is if several Ts did it at the various locations: supply room, T spawn (twice, and even then, I've never seen the T spawn door to the projector room blocked...), and long hall. Originally Posted by RandomGuy
I don't really think this is a problem. I'm sorry that Fox had to deal with it, but most of the time, furniture will not stop the hostages, and even if they do stop, it's likely that there's an alternate route to take.
Forcing the CT to take an alternate route dramatically changes the dynamics of the game, though. And in a manner that I don't particularly care for... It's hard enough to rescue hostages as it is. Most rounds end by killing the other team, not by rescuing the hostages. Preventing CTs from sneaking out the back with the hostages only makes this worse.Become a supporting member!
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02-16-2005, 08:58 AM #38
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Re: CS_Office
You know that the only way for the Ts to win is by killing the CTs, right? By default, 50% of the wins on that map are going to be kill-based, even on the most objectives-based server you can imagine. Toss in the facts that Ts generally try to get in the way of CTs on their way to rescue the hostages, and that CTs have guns.... and that percentage starts to climb. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
Firefights are what make and break the game; getting the hostages, while the objective, isn't normally what wins a round. Hostage rescue is a nice thing to do while killing Ts.
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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
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02-16-2005, 12:04 PM #39
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Re: CS_Office
WRONG. Originally Posted by Pokerface
Pokerface, you've just made a statement that is exactly opposite what PCS stands for. How can you be so opposed to our style of play? I don't understand the hate here...Firefights are what make and break the game; getting the hostages, while the objective, isn't normally what wins a round. Hostage rescue is a nice thing to do while killing Ts.Become a supporting member!Buy a Tactical Duck!
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02-16-2005, 12:33 PM #40
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Re: CS_Office
How often does time run out? Can you cite a single example? BUT YOU ARE TYPING IN ALL CAPS YOU MUST BE CORRECT. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
One of the reasons most objectives based servers have a 3 minute round time is so that the T's can win by means other than killing all the CT's, simply presenting a good defense around the hostage area can push the cts back and they can run out of time. However, by having a 7 minute round time that option is essentially eliminated, and killing is left as the only choice for a T victory.
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02-16-2005, 12:50 PM #41
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Re: CS_Office
Interesting take on things.. Hmm...
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02-16-2005, 01:43 PM #42
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Re: CS_Office
How else can they win? Timelimit? If the timelimit expires, then it's the CTs who failed, not the Ts who won. And last I checked, it's not as if there's a bombsite on cs_ maps, so alternative methods are few and far between. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
If you're on CTs and the time is running out, you had best be throwing yourself headlong into the hostage zone. THAT'S objective-based play. And the Ts will probably kill you in the process, because (OMG) the Ts shoot back! And if they don't kill you, then you might (OMG) kill them and end the round!
If you're on Ts and see that timelimit ticking away, are you going to smile smugly having proven me wrong, or are you going to camp a rescue site AND KILL A CT trying to make a last second rescue?
I'm not opposed to the style of play here. I'm opposed to the high-and-mighty attitude you have about it, and how it's totally unassailable despite the logical inconsistencies.
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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
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02-16-2005, 02:33 PM #43
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Re: CS_Office
I don't have a "high and mighty" attitude. I maintain that our style of play is a philosophy that can't be imitated with written rules. Your statement sums up why this is true: Originally Posted by Pokerface
There are no written rules that are able to tell whether you want to play deathmatch or if you want to work with your team to focus on the objective at hand. We could write rule after rule after rule for you, but it looks like it wouldn't change the fact that you don't consider the objective as important as killing the other team.Firefights are what make and break the game; getting the hostages, while the objective, isn't normally what wins a round. Hostage rescue is a nice thing to do while killing Ts.
The ultimate win for me would be to rescue all the hostages or to detonate a bomb without ever killing a single person on the opposite team. Yeah, it rarely happens, because the defensive team is playing defense, but still...Become a supporting member!Buy a Tactical Duck!
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02-16-2005, 02:49 PM #44
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Re: CS_Office
... I honestly don't know what to say anymore, Cing. You throw around the term "deathmatch" like McCarthy used "communist", and try to pigeonhole everyone who pulls their trigger while their gun is pointed at an enemy into some evil DM hole. I'll go with size 5 again, so everyone can be certain about my next statement: Originally Posted by Cing
You can play the map objectives and STILL end up killing the entire opposing team, thereby winning the round. I am NOT disparaging objective-based play, "and I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Deathmatching Party."
And then!!!
NO... not "but still...". The defense plays ... DEFENSE! And shoots at you! And if you want to complete your objective of getting to the bombsite or getting to the hostages, YOU SHOOT BACK! This is why I said the following:The ultimate win for me would be to rescue all the hostages or to detonate a bomb without ever killing a single person on the opposite team. Yeah, it rarely happens, because the defensive team is playing defense, but still...
So long as the defense is playing defense, it's the shooting back and forth that will decide who wins the game. Originally Posted by me
So you can feel good about yourself, the moment the tools become available, I'll craft a plugin that will let you plant the bomb/rescue the hostages even after all the defense is dead, so you can win the round via the objective and get that fuzzy feeling inside, but until either that happens, or someone decides that PCS should be played with hugs instead of guns, expect the killing of the opposing team to win the round, despite (or perhaps because of, even) objective-based play.
To pull this back to the thread topic ....
So long as the objective CAN be completed (it's objective above all else, remember?), there is no reason using furniture to block hallways should be disallowed.Last edited by Pokerface; 02-16-2005 at 03:17 PM. Reason: typo
NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2
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02-16-2005, 02:55 PM #45
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Re: CS_Office
Makes good sense to me, Poker.
Yes yes.. agreed. Originally Posted by Pokerface
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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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