TheFeniX

Let me start by saying: I am always impressed by the level of respect on the TG servers (NS and CS:S both). Even though I am not the best CS player, I am always in awe of people willingly accepting and executing a strat I've come up with when no one else has offered one.

Hence, I feel every team should have a leader who has a rounding in Strategies and Tactics. It may sound kind of harsh, but we expect no less on the NS server and I think this would improve our game if not just make it like were acting as a team and not just a bunch of kids with guns.

We don't have to sit here and have a vote about it, but just something like: "Hey guys, I got a plan." If you decide to partake in this plan, stick with it. A few things I'd like to say about a team leader.

1. Do not badger your teammates. We've had instances in the past of someone taking charge then blaming what went wrong on everyone else.

2. If you're out of ideas, defer to someone else.

3. Communicate: Don't just decide to change your attack plan and move off alone. Let us know. I always like hearing plans laid out.

Listen to the team-leader guys. If you don't agree with the way a situation's going: the middle of a fire-fight is not the place to decide to voice your dissent.

What do you guys think?

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Nightfire

agreed, only that people actually listened to me esp on cs_italy and ever since then, my plans always seem to work....havana is a different story unfortunately.

TheFeniX

Just like in NS: I never mind losing a game if everyone did what they were supposed to and we were just out-skilled.

What I do mind is people complaining when we lost and it seems they did everything in their power to not follow orders or work as a team. That's one of the reasons I was not sad to see that FireWater guy go.

He expected clan level performance from his team and even if we did everything he asked and we still lost: it was all our fault and none of it his.

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Wyzcrak

typo?

You're right. Teams need leaders. Players can become leaders in many different ways and to many different degrees, but teams need leaders.

I plan on introducing "Captains Games" to the CSS server soon. It'll have to happen when the server is damn near exclusively regulars, but I'm going to try it out. It'll be a bit picky without a ready room, but I plan to work everything out before the map changes and then play the game. Should be a hell of a lot of fun (if people go for it).

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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

TheFeniX

Damn it!

FeniX -1
Wyz - 1

This is personal now.

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Wyzcrak

LOLLOLOLOLLOOL @ that hahahaha

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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

CingularDuality

I like the idea of team leaders. It's easy on the de_maps, as the bomb carrier is the default leader for that round, but on the cs_maps and defensive teams, someone often needs to step up and take charge.

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TheFeniX

I actually don't like that at all. To me, it's like saying "Well, FeniX was closest to the command chair (in NS) so he would make a good commander." If anything, the bomb carriers last priority should be Strategy. It's like the bodyguard asking his client how best to protect him.

By default, the bomb carrier should be in the middle of the group. When the action begins (hopefully at a bomb-site) he ignores anything except maybe a defender on the bomb plant site itself and plant the bomb.

Putting him at the front is just asking for him to die and "throw the bomb" about 50 feet forward, out of reach of your team. Then you have to run out and risk getting gunned down to get the bomb. Plus, when CT's see the bomb on the ground, you bet your butt the rest of them will be there soon.

Here's how a default bomb-site insurgence should go 7 vs 7:
3 up front, 1 bomb, 3 in back.

Hit the site, two in front spread out, one goes in front with the bomb to plant. He shields the planter from incoming fire and returns with his own. The back three setup where the action is and they are needed.

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Wyzcrak

Right. I'm all for the bomb-carrier taking the planning lead if he's so inclined, but I would hope that such a role isn't assumed (by others, much less by himself) for the guy simply because the engine randomly gave him the bomb.

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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

Usarion

I don't think we are to far away from this.

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9 v

Sometimes we are. Sometimes i'm amazed how often either myself or another regular will call on everyone to just hold on for a second and work out what we're doing, only to watch all bar two go running off to wherever they like, leaving those trying to formulate a plan (often with the bomb) on their own.

It's not just newbies that do this (and they know not what they do) it's some regulars. Sometimes you'll hear a "i'm going to distract at B" as they disappear off int he distance too, which kind of limits your planning options.

i'm not singling anyone out in particular, hell, i'm not unguilty of this either, i just want to say that those regulars who do this regularly should bloody stop it, and think about your team once in awhile.

As far as bombman and planning goes, i think it's pretty usual now for people to ask the bomb carrier where he wants to go, and i like the idea of whoever is randomly chosen to carry should be allowed to call the plan (he doesn't need to lead the charge) as this gives him the opportunity (in an ideal world) to think of a plan and to be listened to (if he's lucky).

On a related note to the first bit, sometimes when i have the bomb i will type and say (if i can use my mic) ok, i'm going to A via the middle. i might even say it twice. Then i look up and find that Meat Drapes is standing next to me and everyone else is rushing to B...

Addict

Obviously the team needs a plan, and people rushing off thither and yon when someone is trying to explain their plan is silly and counter productive.

And I think it is *great* that the RANDOM person who gets the bomb gets to call the strategy that round. Why wouldn't you?! On the up side, you get different people's perspective on how the game should be played. You get some unexpectedness. You get to hear the people who are quiet. The bomb carrier is forced to think about tactics. On the down side... what, you might loose a round 'cause the plan wasn't sound or no plan was presented BY the bomb carrier? (you only have a few minutes invested in a round here. You won't know a tactic absolutely won't work till you try it, so might as well try crazy stuff somtimes. You get to directly talk to new people that have the bomb and let them know that a plan is expected. etc etc etc.)

However, as much as I like having the bomb carrier(or one person who speaks up on the other types of maps/teams) come up with a strategy at the begining of a round, I severely dislike the idea of an absolute "Team Captain", ESP if one is PUT IN PLACE for a whole map. Right now, if someone else comes up with an idea for a round, bam, people listen and try that idea(at least in my experience). If there is a "Team Captain", I think people will just bow to the captain's ideas. I'm not the most vocal person, but I enjoy putting forth my idea every once in a while when I get the bomb, or something in particular moves me to suggest a plan to my team. I'll never want to be the "captain", nor will I want to play ever with one.

One thing I particularly enjoy about CS is the individual initiative available. I'm NOT talking Rambo here; comunication is so neccesary, fitting in with the general strat layed out at the begining of the round is neccesary, restraint is sometimes neccesary. But, still, the openness to experiment and do what YOU think will help the team. I want to answer to my entire team, not some single-snap-judgement-high-stress "captain" figure installed at the begining of a map. Please don't don't don't do this.

Usarion

So true. This is usually followed up by "Player A dead" "Player B dead" being displayed in the top right corner. To which of course, I must laugh.

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asch

Wyz... can you explain a bit more your "Captain Games" and how they might work in CS:S?

CingularDuality

I'm open to new ideas, but I tend to agree with everything said here. As the server moves closer and closer to being nothing but regulars, I think we'll start to see leaders emerge. I'll often hear a bomb carrier ask for plans, but I very much like the idea that a randomly chosen person is the default leader. There's nothing saying that he can't allow someone else to come up with a plan...

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