TheFeniX

You're still gambling. What do you hope to accomplish? Find out where the Ts are, then fall back? What good does that do you when they can just decide to move onto another route?

You want to engage them when outnumbered? Horrible idea.

It's just a bad move either way.

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octorfunk

I'm brand new to TG, but I feel at home already. I've been looking for some 18+ mature gamers for a while, guys who want to do more than deathmatch.

However, I probably hold the minority opinion about kill-hunting. When I think about objective-based playing, I think that includes doing anything logical/realistic it takes to win.

In my opinion, it is a whole lot easier to kill your enemy BEFORE he plants timed explosives. Either way, you have to deal with your enemy. To me, it makes a lot more sense (when it is possible) to only deal with one of these two threats at a time.

Example: once the terrorists plant the bomb, we lose %99 of the tactical advantage, because now the CT's are forced into a small, well-defined killling zone which is controlled by their enemy. And, unlike the 50/50 chance CT's take by guarding both A & B, the T's now know exactly where the CT's are going to be. They not only know the exact area and room they are going to be in, they know the exact spot in that room that a CT is going to have to crouch over to diffuse the bomb and complete his objective.

To me, this sounds like a tactical nightmare, and a big red flag. If your enemy holds %99 of the tactical advantage, it is probably not very tactically sound to walk into the room that he is expecting you to walk into.

For these reasons, I would go a lot lighter on the "kill-hunting (KH)," because to me, KH is merely a different strategy of completing your objectives. For the T's, it is much easier to plant/arm the bomb when they have eliminated most of the CT's. For the CT's, it is much easier (and safer) to eliminate the T's before they have the chance to plant the bomb (and thus determine the time and place of the next engagement).

In a real life situation, if there is a bomb threat, I believe it is the primary objective of the CT's to secure the intended target of the bomb. However, once that is done, they need to take the intiative away from their enemy by actively seeking him out.

It is not the job of a CT force to merely guard an objective indefinately, waiting for their enemy to coming directly into their line of fire. No, once they have secured the objective, in order to maintain that security they need to be constantly expanding their perimeter.

CS:S translation: Secure the bombsites first, obviously. However, once they are both secure, send a portion of your force out to "expand the perimeter," to push forward and take ground from the T's and retain the tactical advantage.

Atomic Dog

Be around for our next Captain's Match. We usually PW the server and you'll find that there's an anything goes mentality as far as planning goes. There's no rushing or anything like that...but there's no reason to not expect a couple guys from the defensive team taking forward positions to sniff out the opposition. For the sake of keeping our server running smoothly, we tend to not pull out these tactics while it's open to pubbies though. We save this stuff for nights when we know the crowd is mature enough to handle it.

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TheBigC

IMHO, every night should be nothing but the standards of CPTs games. That is the ultimate goal here. But for now, limited matches will take place.

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The Meek shall inherit the earth..... after we're through with it!

The Wounded Warrior Project, help support my friends

octorfunk

I agree with you guys. It takes a certain level of maturity to be able to losen things up a little (boundaries, hunting, bombsite defense, etc.) Do you have a schedule for the Captain's Matches? And what exactly are they? Are they only open to supporting members?

What Is Schwa?

Than you don't exactly understand the nature of the TG primer.

It isn't about doing whatever it takes to win. That isn't part of the TG server.

Never would a defensive unit say to half it's members "Go and scour the city for potential opponents!"

You are confusing tactics that take advantage of in game limitations (bad) with tactis that attempt to employ teamwork under semi-realisitic conditions (good)

Consider these in-game limitations that are among the less obvious:
It is an in game limitation that units start in the same place.
It is an in game limitation that every single building isn't inhabitable.
It is an in game limitation that there are round timers.

If your tactics incorporate the knowledge of those (among many others) than you probobly are doing something NON-TG.

I can elaborate further if you are confused.

-Aaron

What Is Schwa?

Than encourage your admins to lock down the server when large numbers are present and initiate captains games. Post a password in the forum (or just have a general password for spur-of-the-moment captain games) so regulars can still join. This was done a few nights ago and was great fun until a steam update crashed us out.

-Aaron

Golden

I Love Captains Games!!!!

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octorfunk

Allow me to clarify:

When I mention "doing whatever it takes to win," I also attempt to do this while upholding the principles of reality.

When I mention "doing whatever it takes to win," I do not advocate ridiculous thing such as bunnyhopping and grenade spamming (to name a few).

When I mention "doing whatever it takes to win," I am more on-board with TG values than you realize, so I guess it will just take some time and observation on everyone's behalf to recognize that.

And if you look at the quote you took from my previous post:
[Originally Posted by octorfunk
When I think about objective-based playing, I think that includes doing anything logical/realistic it takes to win.], I very clearly use the words

LOGICAL and REALISTIC

so maybe this has just been a misunderstanding.

I like the server, I like the idea behind it.

Even after rereading my own post, I cannot find ANY tactics that I mentioned that fit the above description. If anything, I DISCOURAGE taking advantage of in-game limitations. I never mentioned any strategy concerning use of the in-game clock, knowledge of habitable/inhabitable buildings, or the pre-determined spawns.

If we are really trying to play as if we have no knowledge of an enemy's spawn point, thus eliminating an "in-game limitation," then there needs to be a serious discussion of the "boundaries" that are drawn up including spawn points. If players at TG are really playing without using knowlegde of pre-determined spawn points, then entering into an enemy spawn should never be off-limits, it should just be one of many possible areas to encounter your enemy.

I don't intend any disrespect to anyone, and I've had a lot of fun playing at TG so far. I like having open discussions/forums about tactics and rules, it's through the sharing of opinions that rules evolve and become better. Hope to see you guys in-game soon.

What Is Schwa?

Octorfunk, after reviewing the dates on this thread I would like to point out that it is generally bad forum behavior to bump old threads. When you do so you re-open discussion where the original contributers might not still be around to defend their arguments.

Your first post in this thread could have stood on it's own. Don't be afraid to start forum topics.

Hey now, don't be upset with me if you're going to make arguments with qualifiers like those. You can't expect everyone to anticiapate whatever caveat you leave unmentioned. If you havn't allready learned: what is logical to you isn't always so to others.

Very recently I was like you, questioning every rule on my way through these forums. I've learned the hard way that here it's less about what you say, and more about how you say it.

From time to time, everyone breaks the rules and will get disciplined for them. Try not to take it personally when it happens to you.

-Aaron

What Is Schwa?

Now to address your specefic points:

So? In bomb mode your objective is to defend two positions. For all you know, the T's might decide to pack it up and go home.

Defending the bombsites shouldn't be "easy"

Your statement here leads me to beleive you are still thinking in terms of "killing all of your enemy equals winning" as opposed to defending objectives.

To me this is more evidence that you aren't thinking objectively. Instead you are trying to jockey for tactical advantage using the restraints of the map. Bomb mode is an example of an unbalanced situation. That is what makes it fun.

No, killing your enemy is a completely different objective. Like I said in my previous post, it makes NO sense from a defensive position to send any of your force on kill hunting missions.

Here you are completely wrong. It is the objective of the CT to guard the objective indefinately.

You are inventing new objectives that might help you win the round, but aren't better ways to defend the objective. Your reasoning is that these new objectives make it easier to complete the original objective, and thus are tactically sound.

Winning a round does not equal completing the objective. Killing all your opponents does not equal completing the objective.

If you still don't understand I'm afraid I cannot help you further.

-Aaron

Gillespie

Kill-hunting is the method of play in which a pubbie thunderboots off in the direction of the other team's spawn at the beginning of the round without any communication with his teammates in regards to his intentions.

I wouldn't say that if someone communicates to their teammates, "OK, I'm rushing their spawn! Who's with me?!" and takes off at the beginning of the match that it is considered "tactical play". However, if you're in the defense and decide to roam cautiously with a teammate along a likely route of advance for the assault team (hoping to catch their flank and surprise them)... yes. That'd be tactical play.

Good words in this thread, but sometimes this argument amounts to splitting hairs.

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<ArmA Information/SOPs> <ArmA Admin Team> <TG Req. Reading>

Root

Gillespie gets it.

We'll never achieve the level of realism we desire. It's simply impossible. Now imagine that we WERE able to achieve it. The CT's would still know the intended targets.

THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES IN PCS. SIMPLY GUARD THE OBJECTIVE AND WAIT FOR THE OFFENSIVE TEAM TO ATTACK.

You're close, but not quite there. It's a whole lot easier (and far more tactical) to kill the bomber (assuming you've clearly identified them as such) BEFORE they plant timed explosives. In the split second it takes to identify and cap the bomber, be sure to call your team in and voila - you just reduced to targets to one.

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Gillespie

"In my opinion, it is a whole lot easier to kill your enemy BEFORE he plants timed explosives."

I think that was a point octorfunk made. Not I, said the cat.

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<ArmA Information/SOPs> <ArmA Admin Team> <TG Req. Reading>

Root

Post corrected. My apologies.

<mutters about there being too many new people in this thread>

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