Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? - Page 2

girlscoutcookie · 12-27-2005, 11:47 PM

I said common, not all.

Priest · 12-28-2005, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poe

LMAO, thanks for the flattery, but I am pretty much always slaughtered every time I go up the middle. I only take cellars/middle when I'm willing to sacrifice myself

I MUCH prefer the apartments... or even long hall, really. I can't stand walking into a possible gauntlet of enemies, which is what I see the middle as. *shudders*

In the situation he described, with limited manpower and the positions he suggested, moving through middle would probably work unless someone waited unexpected in that spot- the only flaw with the system as it is (that I have any complaints about, the fact that it's a flaw is just my point of view), is that there's little that one can truly do unexpectedly that I've seen, aside from hiding in a spot that's usually considered... well if there's no out-of-bounds then non-objective-accomplishing :P After all, we've all seen the lone pubbie on Dust2 rush up behind the T's in long A and rape the whole team. Hell, I did that once (right when I came back to TG after several months and I didn't know things had gotten more strict) because we knew where the T's were going, I thought it would be a good flanking move :P Root subsequently either slapped, slayed, or kicked me for this, I don't remember, but it lead to me reading the forums again :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

Another point to consider is that your teammates have no good way of backing you up should you require it. IRL we would never put ourselves into a position like that because we would have no way to retreat. If 3 hostiles come around that corner you're going to die and IRL we'd never sacrifice our lives for that little of a gain.

If I were to actually go with this tactic, I'd choose to put another T on the railing facing the little nook, it would be easy to support that location, provided that whoever on the railing has the ability to *not* shoot the guy in the corner :P the T could stay in the corner, the T on the rails could draw out the group, then the corner T could wipe out the lot of them. This usefullness would become null if it became widely used though...

poe · 12-28-2005, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlscoutcookie

I said common, not all.

Eh, I won't debate that more here.

Priest · 12-28-2005, 03:23 PM

Buck Fush · 12-28-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poe

On the TG server, mind you.

And not all terrorists are suicidal martyrs. That's what those in the sociological department call "stereotyping." And stereotyping is bad.

I hate sterotyping. I think people who sterotype are short and bald.

Karkianman101 · 12-28-2005, 08:53 PM

The back-up argument for this falls on its face. Time isn't an issue: availability is. If the CT's go middle, cellars, or long hall, you are cut off from your team. If you are down long hall, you can help with long hall, you can get back up if they push apartments, and you can at least get close to the house before the CT's do. If you are on apartment roof, you can help at apartments, you can see if any CT's go cellar, and you can pick off CT's hanging around middle.

Going from middle to dark alley takes away decent LH support (thought I've seen fair cases for rushing the rear of LH during such), makes it harder to support Apt, and gets you farther from the house as a fall back point. The advantage is that you can get in a one man pincher if the CT's rush middle.

And to put one more nail in the coffin, PCS isn't words. It's more of a feeling than anything. And this doesn't feel like it.

Root · 12-31-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

Not.

I talked with the admins about this, and we are in agreement: that spot is too far to get back to cover the main objective (the hostages).

My counter-argument to yours is: what benefit can you achieve from that position that you cannot achieve from the stairwell near the winecellar, or from the bridge or apartment roof?

None.

While there are no boundaries, you have to think in terms of "can I get back to support the team, and cover the hostages, if everything goes pear shaped?" From those upper level positions, you can.

From the CT approach areas, you cannot.

What he said. Case dismissed.

JoshZeitlin · 12-31-2005, 09:30 PM

Final words.

I think this server has gone a little TOO far with the whole tactics thing.

Militarily speaking, tactics EXIST to increase the likelihood for success in an objective oriented environment. Whatever counter argument you can come up with is useless in the face of practiced success. I used the spot off and on for weeks before putting it up on this forum and the FACT is: it worked.

There should not be a difference between PCS Proven and Battle Proven.

That said, I'll never go to the spot again.

Sabooya · 01-01-2006, 12:54 AM

People tend to think that you are souly trying to defeate the other team with tactics and teamwork. This should not be the case. It should be your number one goal to (Based on this thread)protect the Hostages until the time runs out. Not find a "tactical" way to catch the other team off gaurd, or eliminate the other team. People often call this far off point a relay spot, or observation.
Or as josh says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshZeitlin

you have enough warning to provide support in reaction to a blitz at either point.

They also justify this as, a tactical way to spot the enemy. It really is no more than a way to get some kills racked up, intentionally or not.

JoshZeitlin · 01-01-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabooya

Not find a "tactical" way to catch the other team off gaurd, or eliminate the other team.

It really is no more than a way to get some kills racked up, intentionally or not.

Extreemely interesting point and I see the logic behind it. But its a little difficult to believe when you hear the words: "Terrorists Win." Hearing those words means the fruition of the ultimate T objective - Win.

I'll concede the point to you though. I think I often get a little too caught up in the final objective and forget about the means that will justify the end.

**CingularDuality** · 01-01-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshZeitlin

Extreemely interesting point and I see the logic behind it. But its a little difficult to believe when you hear the words: "Terrorists Win." Hearing those words means the fruition of the ultimate T objective - Win.

I'll concede the point to you though. I think I often get a little too caught up in the final objective and forget about the means that will justify the end.

Ah, but that's the man reason why CounterStrike isn't perfect for TacticalGamer.

You can play CS like a team deathmatch game all day long...

That's not, however, what we want here. Killing all of the other team is often how rounds end, but that's NEVER the objective at the beginning of a round. Understand that and you'll be one step closer to understanding PCS.

Ben · 01-05-2006, 01:01 PM

Negative Poester. If you have it in your mind that all terrorists ARE suicidal martyrs then you will have a better chance of staying alive when you are in the field. ALWAYS expect the worse.
That is what I tell my soldiers everytime we go on patrol, man a checkpoint or raid a house.
Stereotyping might not be politically correct but niether is terrorism.

Ben · 01-05-2006, 01:05 PM

Cing, I never see you on. Where are you?

**CingularDuality** · 01-05-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben

Cing, I never see you on. Where are you?

I've been working evenings for a while now. Weekends are my only opportunity to game and I got sucked into BF2 and now EVE. I stop in every once in a while...

Right now, my gaming comp is down for a HDD, too... I should have it back up this weekend, though.

Swoop · 01-05-2006, 01:58 PM

Now this was good reading...enjoyed the discussion, the points/counterpoints, but most of all the maturity of the thread in general. I dont post much cause there are lots of useless threads and im too stupid to start any myself.

great community, see yall in game
swoop

12-27-2005, 11:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
girlscoutcookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Age: 22 Posts: 77	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? I said common, not all.

12-28-2005, 03:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
Priest Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 71439 Age: 20 Posts: 378	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? Xd __________________

12-28-2005, 08:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,546	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? The back-up argument for this falls on its face. Time isn't an issue: availability is. If the CT's go middle, cellars, or long hall, you are cut off from your team. If you are down long hall, you can help with long hall, you can get back up if they push apartments, and you can at least get close to the house before the CT's do. If you are on apartment roof, you can help at apartments, you can see if any CT's go cellar, and you can pick off CT's hanging around middle. Going from middle to dark alley takes away decent LH support (thought I've seen fair cases for rushing the rear of LH during such), makes it harder to support Apt, and gets you farther from the house as a fall back point. The advantage is that you can get in a one man pincher if the CT's rush middle. And to put one more nail in the coffin, PCS isn't words. It's more of a feeling than anything. And this doesn't feel like it.

12-31-2005, 09:30 PM	#23 (permalink)
JoshZeitlin Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Memphis Age: 24 Posts: 149	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? Final words. I think this server has gone a little TOO far with the whole tactics thing. Militarily speaking, tactics EXIST to increase the likelihood for success in an objective oriented environment. Whatever counter argument you can come up with is useless in the face of practiced success. I used the spot off and on for weeks before putting it up on this forum and the FACT is: it worked. There should not be a difference between PCS Proven and Battle Proven. That said, I'll never go to the spot again. __________________ Josh - Some men will always be animals, while others ... they will be Men.

01-05-2006, 01:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
Ben Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Israel / Memphis Age: 31 Posts: 872	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? Negative Poester. If you have it in your mind that all terrorists ARE suicidal martyrs then you will have a better chance of staying alive when you are in the field. ALWAYS expect the worse. That is what I tell my soldiers everytime we go on patrol, man a checkpoint or raid a house. Stereotyping might not be politically correct but niether is terrorism. __________________ A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it. All I ask for is communication

01-05-2006, 01:05 PM	#28 (permalink)
Ben Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Israel / Memphis Age: 31 Posts: 872	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? Cing, I never see you on. Where are you? __________________ A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it. All I ask for is communication

01-05-2006, 01:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
Swoop Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 45	Re: Italy - A hot spot; PCS or Not? Now this was good reading...enjoyed the discussion, the points/counterpoints, but most of all the maturity of the thread in general. I dont post much cause there are lots of useless threads and im too stupid to start any myself. great community, see yall in game swoop

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