Re: TG: There are no boundaries! Except... there are...

**some guy** · 01-28-2007, 05:07 PM

This is an old thread and I hope I don't get in trouble for dragging it out, but...

I think the boundaries are bad. They encourage players to get lax when in their "protected" zones. This happened to me as well. You aren't expecting a T to be here because they aren't "allowed", so you aren't as careful as you should be. Then you whine about the rules when someone moves out of their "boundaries".

As a result, I (one time, before the boundaries were fully explained to me) as a T was able to drop in behind the CTs in Havana and pick two of them off quite easily because they weren't covering their rear. I was even able to get back to the hostages. Meanwhile, two or three other Ts were guarding the hostages, so they weren't in immediate danger.

The way I see it, as long as a reasonable portion of the team is guarding the objective, there's no reason not to be able to send out small harassment teams, which can be very effective.

I don't think Ts should rush in a cs_ map, or CTs in a de_ map, but there should NOT be strict boundaries.

Additionally, in my gameplay experience, and from what seems most logical to me... Planting the bomb while there are CTs left is not a huge problem, but trying to rescue hostages while Ts remain is a huge pain in the ass. I've felt this way in other games such as Raven Shield as well. Whenever there are hostages to rescue, by far the easiest way to do it is to kill all the terrorists, because since they can NEVER execute a hostage, there is no danger of that happening once it's clear you're taking out the terrorists one-by-one. I don't know how counter-terrorist teams approach this in real life, but that's my impression from in-game.

Furthermore, I've seen even TG players use the hostages as shields while trying to rescue them.

**Apophis** · 01-28-2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by some guy

This is an old thread and I hope I don't get in trouble for dragging it out, but...

At least you took the time to find it and resurrect it rather than just starting a whole new topic! That earns you points.

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-28-2007, 08:00 PM

Ugh, this again =/

Being the O.P. I am compelled to defend my argument.

The TG server is a very, very difficult place to learn the ropes. When a new player joins the server, it is often easier to tell him "Hey NewGuy, just don't go here here and here until you get the ropes."

Often times, the quoted text is immediately followed by "THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES!!"

This is incredibly confusing to new players and doesn't help them any. I was hoping this thread would spark some interest on better ways to incorporate new players, but it trainwrecked into something esle.

-Aaron

**some guy** · 01-28-2007, 08:02 PM

Tell them you need to work as a team and if they go off Ramboing on their own, they'll be kicked.

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-28-2007, 08:11 PM

That works for the offensive team.

"Boundaries" only come into play for defense. Getting new players to understand how to defend properly is a difficult task.

Telling new players "there are no boundaries" is shamelessly confusing. Pub play has taught most players that the best way to defend is to kill the entire team by any means possible. Play is disrupted by these players during their learning period. A quick guideline for them to follow while they become familiar with the finer points of TG is more helpful.

-Aaron

**some guy** · 01-28-2007, 08:14 PM

You tell them, "if your team says to stay here, you stay here. Don't go over here unless you're told to or get permission." That's very simple.

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-28-2007, 09:01 PM

Ok... what do you want from me? Another thread got locked because of personal differences, why are you resurecting old threads to debate me in? It feels like you are looking to point out just how wrong my ideas are.

Mods, nothing new is being contributed here. As the opening poster, may I respectfully ask this thread be closed?

-Aaron

**Sirusblk** · 01-28-2007, 09:17 PM

I saw a terrorist run and hide at the hostage rescue on kismayo way back in the water. He had stuck with one set of hostages for quite a while but alas in persuing an enemy he had lost the hostages, he ran to the hostage rescue area and waited for the CT to come. Sudently he died, it seemed from the console. I'm not sure though if it was from the console or from a glitch from the map.

My question is I guess is is that a case of boundaries? Should he have done something else?

-Sirusblk

**some guy** · 01-28-2007, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?

Ok... what do you want from me? Another thread got locked because of personal differences, why are you resurecting old threads to debate me in? It feels like you are looking to point out just how wrong my ideas are.

Mods, nothing new is being contributed here. As the opening poster, may I respectfully ask this thread be closed?

-Aaron

Don't take everything so personally, this has nothing to do with you.

**Ben** · 01-29-2007, 04:56 PM

Yeah, "some guy" is not directing this towards anyone specifically. He is simply offering alternatives and suggestions in order to assist in the gameplay.

He does have valid points regarding so called "harrassment squads". This is something that has been bugging me since i started here. By trying to maintain a realistic combat experience, we limit the experience by setting boundries connected to our objectives.

Hmmm, i guess that is where the PCS games shine. All i can say is earn the PCS designation and join us for some serious tactical innovation.

**Root** · 01-29-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ben

Hmmm, i guess that is where the PCS games shine. All i can say is earn the PCS designation and join us for some serious tactical innovation.

QFT.

Schwa, I'll not lock the thread, because we've got plenty of new people who might want to have some input.

To all - enjoy the debate, and keep it civil.

**Vulcan** · 01-30-2007, 10:52 AM

Chill out on the personal paranoia schwa. People have opinions about important things here which you do as well. Read that for what it is, another caring community member.

Some Guy,

There have been countless threads that i can recall on this issue, not only here but in past admin forum threads as well. These ideas that we uphold on the server are very hard for the general cs community simply because there is no structure built into the game that enforce teamwork. We do that and being only people and not a game mechanism, It's personal and it's hard. I'm glad you take interest in this and hopefully you can help others on the server to educate new players and existing players on our playstylewho need it! Don't be afraid to listen and learn as well.

**Root** · 02-03-2007, 09:25 AM

Pompa, try again, this time without a lengthy debate about admin actions. Anyone who's read the various required reading knows that this is absolutely unacceptable at TG.

**ednos** · 02-03-2007, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?

TG is the minority, and it is absurd to think that every player who has the capacity to enjoy TG will immediatly grasp the finer points, especially when the starting guidelines are vague.

When I first played on the PCS server, it was on cs_italy, and I joined the defending team. I immediately rushed down Long Hall, surprised to see my teammates calling out "rusher" in the chat. I came back and asked; someone gave me a simple and quick explanation (i.e. two sentences), and since then, Root is the only one who's ever had to kick me (and you know what that means). The concepts are not hard to grasp; the only potential difficulties I can see for intelligent players involve ignorance of map layout. People who don't understand the way things work after a round or two deserve to be kicked until they understand it, or banned if they show no improvement. Now, I can't really support this statement since I have no power to kick or ban, and I'm not about to advise administrators on their duties; this is just the way I think it ought to be (and is when certain administrators are present on the server).

**Root** · 02-03-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by ednos

When I first played on the PCS server, it was on cs_italy.......

When I first played on the PCS server, it was on de_aztec. As I'd already read the SOP's, I knew for a fact that I'd enjoy TG, and immediately on spawning the first time, let me team know which site I was going to cover.

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