Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

**War.mongeR1** · 01-16-2007, 03:41 PM

This is why I think this map is so tough. That's a good thing ofcourse. I just love all the different possible strategies. It seems that there is no perfect strategy, because every one has it's own specific weakness, or would work differently against different opponents. Great discussion!

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-16-2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Root

Put another way, as far as our server goes, Schwa's defense is broken and I don't see anyone trying to fix it.

Ouch, yourself included?

I feel my positions have pretty good coverage and most likely wont be seen until the CT decides to open fire. He can choose to fall back or engage, and provide radio information.

Position 1 is nearly impossible to see and often 2 or 3 terrorist can come around that corner without even noticing a CT hiding thre.

Position 2 is also invisible from the Upper B entrance, and invisible to the lower B entrance.

Position 3 is a little more visible, but to be seen the Ts will have commited themselves to a B assault.

Position 4 is a backup position and will not be seen by any terrorist until they have commited themselves to a bombsite.

Position 5 is very well covered and perhaps one of the better positions to defend A from.

Position 6 is back on the catwalks, difficult to spot from the approaching T's who will likely be interested in ground opposition.

I don't see how to take vantage positions that allow team communication without the possibility of being spotted. In my oppinion, it is a better defense to have some info on where the enemy is coming from, rather than pile up in a bombsite and only provide a single radio comm of "Yep, they are all here now overwhelming us. Hump it from the opposite side of the map and maybe you can get here in time to diffuse..."

Thoughts?

-Aaron

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-16-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by War.mongeR1

This is why I think this map is so tough. That's a good thing ofcourse. I just love all the different possible strategies. It seems that there is no perfect strategy, because every one has it's own specific weakness, or would work differently against different opponents. Great discussion!

Thanks mate =)

de_AAA is a really tough map, and why I picked it. In my experience i've seen CTs lose because they take positions that don't allow them to provide useful radio comms.

For example, a 3/3 split between A and B gives the terrorist too many quiet options and they can quickly overwhelm the defense from multiple angles. My idea was to limit assault paths while providing a good number of defenders.

In my proposed defense, If radio comms are used, Terrorist won't be able to plant B until 4 CTs are killed, and can't plant A until 5 CTs are killed. This is better than a 3/3 split.

...and this isn't a random scramble to the site. Every player has pretty good cover and backup will be catching commited Ts by their flank.

-Aaron

**Atomic Dog** · 01-16-2007, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Root

The vast majority of the time, the T's kill the CT's one at a time, due to the CT's implementing something along the lines of what Schwa advocates. There are exactly 2 types of people who take forward positions at any site - team players who want to alert the team to an attack in a manner that gives the team the best possible chance of reacting, and killwhores. If the T's kill the forward player(s) it really doesn't make a difference which type of dead CT was there.

Put another way, as far as our server goes, Schwa's defense is broken and I don't see anyone trying to fix it.

In aaa it seems the best advantage CT's have on T's would be their ability to gather information on their location. Utilizing the positions available to CTs for this purpose is probably their most valuable asset on the map. Reconassaince, in my opinion, has far more of a tactical value than waiting blindly in a location for the enemy to come to you. Especially on this map.

I do agree with you that some people who play forward are going for kills. But I don't discount the tactical value of playing forward simply because some people are fragmonkeys about it. Sometimes I depend on those fragmonkeys for valuable info, such as when I see them die on the radar. It gives me a better awareness of where my enemy is at and extra time to respond to a threat.

If in your scenario, CT's guard the bomb site proper, the T's break in and manage to eliminate the CT opposition then it's likely that CT's had little to no time to inform the team of anything. Now T's have the time to plant the bomb and dig in for the CT's coming for the defuse. It's awfully hard to take back A when this happens. I'd much rather hear some info on their whereabouts before they're actually on the bombsite.

I don't agree that Schwa's defense is broken. I've seen the CT's repel the T's more by playing forward on the chokepoints to A than I've ever seen them playing closer to the bombsite.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-16-2007, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?

Ouch, yourself included?I don't see how to take vantage positions that allow team communication without the possibility of being spotted. In my oppinion, it is a better defense to have some info on where the enemy is coming from, rather than pile up in a bombsite and only provide a single radio comm of "Yep, they are all here now overwhelming us. Hump it from the opposite side of the map and maybe you can get here in time to diffuse..."

Thoughts?

-Aaron

Exactly.

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-16-2007, 06:03 PM

Thanks for the comments Atomic Dog. I'm almost done with my Penstock strategy guide and it is much better than this one.

I don't have much left to add here, as de_AAA isn't a map I particularly enjoy and I afraid i'm pigeonholed into my proposed defense. I honestly cannot think of anything better... sorry =/

-Aaron

**Root** · 01-16-2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?

Ouch, yourself included?

No. I'm a pretty sound tactican when it comes to computer games.

**Sniper Bob** · 01-16-2007, 07:35 PM

Hmmm very good article for those who do not know de_aaa this will really help. Schwa you should have ur own section for articles on maps

**What Is Schwa?** · 01-16-2007, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Root

No. I'm a pretty sound tactican when it comes to computer games.

This thread seems like as good a place as any to demonstrate that ability. You can get the de_aaa overlay from my FlickR post and add your own positions and comments.

Here is an updated version of the overlay I was using: de_aaa

I was responding to

Originally Posted by Root

Schwa's defense is broken and I don't see anyone trying to fix it.

Calling on others to do that work is disapointing to hear from a master tactician.

In addition, you might consider how, as a game officer, calling someone's strategy "broken" could be perceived as hurtful. A lot of time went into this, and simply attacking it without offering your own detailed solution is, in my oppinion, an insult.

-Aaron

**Atomic Dog** · 01-16-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?

This thread seems like as good a place as any to demonstrate that ability. You can get the de_aaa overlay from my FlickR post and add your own positions and comments.

Oh I feel a tactical showdown coming on! I'd be interested in seeing your tactical run down of this map as well, root.

**Root** · 01-16-2007, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

Oh I feel a tactical showdown coming on! I'd be interested in seeing your tactical run down of this map as well, root.

Tell you what, you finish writing that which you were recently tasked to write, and I'll let you in on my strategy.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-16-2007, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Root

Tell you what, you finish writing that which you were recently tasked to write, and I'll let you in on my strategy.

Oh I was just kinda thinking you'd offer an alternative strategy seeing as how you already shot down Schwa's. I'm sure we're all eager to see why.

**Apophis** · 01-17-2007, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

Oh I was just kinda thinking you'd offer an alternative strategy seeing as how you already shot down Schwa's. I'm sure we're all eager to see why.

I was thinking the very same thing!

**Itchyy** · 01-17-2007, 09:29 AM

This doesn't look good

**Root** · 01-17-2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

Oh I was just kinda thinking you'd offer an alternative strategy seeing as how you already shot down Schwa's. I'm sure we're all eager to see why.

If you read this thread, you'll see that I shot Schwa's plan down with one of my own.

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