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  1. #1

    I.R. Hogan's Avatar

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    My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Last night my tactics on the map BHDconvoy were disputed, This post is to explain and get feedback.

    The following is a overview of the corner of bhd in question



    The maneuver in question was my flanking of the CT in the room bordered by red due to their firing upon the T position (also our spawn) bordered by green. I personally was spawning at the Yellow Marker in the other T Spawn. The pink line shows my route and the 2nd White Marker shows my common position.
    The assault upon the "green room" was happening the first two rounds and cut us apart before we could leave that spawn. I decided if the CT assaulted the "green room" again, That due to it being our spawn I would be justified in flanking them. I did so twice, and promptly heard complaints. With the graphic and my explanation I am asking for opinions on this situation.

    I welcome all opinions as long as this does not become an all out Flame post.
    I.R. Hogan |TG|


    Discipline is the soul of an army.
    It makes small numbers formidable
    procures success to the weak
    and esteem to all.


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  3. #2
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    ednos's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    I personally commend your tactics. That's an excellent idea.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
    I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede
    Feel free to quote me. ~ Skylark

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  5. #3

    Atomic Dog's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Totally justified flanking maneuver imo. This would not be the first time this tactic has been used.

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    Ghost Stalker's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    I find that recently that these sorts of tactics are becoming more and more used. Now Iím only saying this as when I have been on the offensive team we are killed in area's that should not have a defensive member. In this case he comes down the hall and enter the yellow building and travels to the top floor where a CT is located pinning down one of his fellow team members. He kills the CT, now if he had killed him from say the hostage building then there would be no complaint but as he had moved into an area that is almost always used by the CT's there will some complaints.

    Now as I was the one that was on top of the building providing cover fire for my team mates in the main street and no one followed me down that alley my back was exposed to what is normally presumed as a safe area. I realize that it had to take an ally to get you there and so you were communicating with your team to do so. But I have realized that more and more that the objectives are being some of the time left unprotected and if we deiced to get them we could but as the street holdís no cover it is easy for snipers placed right to take anyone going for or with the hosties are easy prey. I'd also like to point out that you did what I describe above in the 6th or 7th round and not in the first two rounds.

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    Atomic Dog's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Stalker View Post
    Now as I was the one that was on top of the building providing cover fire for my team mates in the main street and no one followed me down that alley my back was exposed to what is normally presumed as a safe area...
    There are no "safe areas" in CS:S. Even on the TG server nobody should be assuming safety...especially if there are PCS members on the other team. Given Hogan's PCS status I don't see any fault for this maneuver. Sounds like his team was getting spanked and he adjusted his tactics appropriately to eliminate the threat. It isn't as if the entire T team had rushed to CT spawn for a fragfest.

    Now let's not get this confused to mean that because Hogan is PCS he can therefore disregard his objective. It doesn't mean that at all. But in this particular instance, from what I have read above, I don't see how he broke from his objective. Though I would like a little more detail to the situation for my own personal benefit I suppose. Questions I would ask are...were the T's pinned down in that room? Was there no possibility of retreat? If they were pinned down, was this preventing them from falling back to hosties? Was Hogan the only one involved with this flanking tactic? Was he expendable at this point or were the T's down to just a few men?

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  11. #6

    Vulcan's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Now Iím only saying this as when I have been on the offensive team we are killed in area's that should not have a defensive member.
    There are no lines for your safety.

    He kills the CT, now if he had killed him from say the hostage building then there would be no complaint but as he had moved into an area that is almost always used by the CT's there will some complaints.
    This tactic called for exactly what you didn't expect. Next time the opposition should have a guy watching his flank.

    Now as I was the one that was on top of the building providing cover fire for my team mates in the main street and no one followed me down that alley my back was exposed to what is normally presumed as a safe area.
    There are NO safe areas.

    But I have realized that more and more that the objectives are being some of the time left unprotected and if we deiced to get them we could but as the street holdís no cover it is easy for snipers placed right to take anyone going for or with the hosties are easy prey. I'd also like to point out that you did what I describe above in the 6th or 7th round and not in the first two rounds.
    So you could get the hostages but you couldn't get them because they were covered by sniper fire? This is a confusing statement.

    Hogan, what you did is perfectly valid and this is what PCS play is about. This is what you can expect from a PCS player. If he had failed in the maneuver it would still be valid. The next round he might rethink doing it. The CT's would obviously know to cover themselves.

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  13. #7

    Quest Shady's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Booya Baby!!!! This in part is what regulars are starting to learn, that THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES...just the objective.... Not all Tactics work ALL of the time...you must be ready to change them up at any given moment depending upon the situation...just keep the objective in mind and keep in communication with your team...THIS DOES NOT mean to go kill hunting just as long as you are telling your team that you are doing so...

    When we get killed because we were not "expecting" someone to be there then our initial instinct is to get mad or complain when really you should take this as a lesson.

    WATH YOUR FLANK and NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!

    Hogan adjusted his play for the situation...



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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Being able to create these plans seperates a PCS player to a non-PCS player. Great tactic.
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  17. #9

    Jason036's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    I personally think Hogan's tactic is very valid. Just looking at the building layout, it almost makes sense to have someone in the red building every round. The firing posistion that the Ts get from the building not only gives a flanking posistion, but a good view of a main CT entrance. Yeah, it's a little close to the CT spawn point, but that doesn't make it a bad a vantage point.

    I can see how the CTs you were playing didn't like it, you took away a great firing posistion from them and gave it to your team. It's close enough to the CT spawn and the objective that the building should be available to both teams.
    The Jackal |TG|

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  19. #10

    Vulcan's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    The real issue with this map is the fact that CT's spawn right out in the open and have literally no cover in front of them. If we can get some coordinates behind the buildings, I can adjust the spawnpoints so they spawn with cover.

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  21. #11

    Atomic Dog's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    I think that's why the convoy is able to be activated. To provide moving cover through the map. I've seen it used quite effectively in the past.

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  23. #12

    I.R. Hogan's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason036 View Post
    I personally think Hogan's tactic is very valid. Just looking at the building layout, it almost makes sense to have someone in the red building every round. The firing posistion that the Ts get from the building not only gives a flanking posistion, but a good view of a main CT entrance. Yeah, it's a little close to the CT spawn point, but that doesn't make it a bad a vantage point.

    I can see how the CTs you were playing didn't like it, you took away a great firing posistion from them and gave it to your team. It's close enough to the CT spawn and the objective that the building should be available to both teams.
    Sorry Jason but I have to disagree with you. The red room is way too close to the ct spawn to be a "common ground" for T access. If T's were to camp in there every round the ct would never get out of thier spawn. Only extreme circumstance should a single T be allowed to flank that building. And once the mission is accomplished that T should back off, as I did.
    I.R. Hogan |TG|


    Discipline is the soul of an army.
    It makes small numbers formidable
    procures success to the weak
    and esteem to all.


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  25. #13

    Vulcan's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    The idea behind it was neat but the implementation not so good.

    I'll see if i can get some coordinates myself on spawn points.

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Sounds great.
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  29. #15

    I.R. Hogan's Avatar

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    Re: My Tactics On BHD in question..

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    The idea behind it was neat but the implementation not so good.

    I'll see if i can get some coordinates myself on spawn points.
    ???
    I.R. Hogan |TG|


    Discipline is the soul of an army.
    It makes small numbers formidable
    procures success to the weak
    and esteem to all.


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