Public Dystopia (Sat evening)

**Wyzcrak** · 09-17-2005, 01:26 AM

Apophis has not yet selected admins for Dystopia, so the server remains open only to forums-registered players. As anyone who's paying close attention might have gathered, reasonable doubt has been raised as to whether this game "belongs" here. I've been given the go-ahead to open the server up just long enough for me to "test the waters," so to speak.

Saturday evening, I'm going to open the server so that it is public. Anyone registered in the forums will have a reserved slot. I will be inviting (don't ask) a small number of admins to assist me in a rather unorthodox approach: little-to-no-warning playstyle enforcement. Some things will just see players magically disappear. Because it's such a touchy topic in this game, no player (stranger, regular, or SM) will be popped for jumping of any shape, flavor, or form without at least (and, in some instances, most) one warning.

To be honest, I'm not sure how well this is going to work. But I know this much... if this game is going to make it here, it's going to be because the server takes a very hardline approach to enforcing the ideals of TG which can thrive in Dystopia without killing that which makes it unique enough to justify its having a home here. If Apophis ever forms an admin team for this game, he'll then lay out (implicitly, if not explicitly) exactly which of those ideals that admin team will enforce. I'll be selecting for tomorrow night's trial the ideals that I see as critical, as best my judgement allows, and making sure they're enforced by the admins I invite to assist me.

The idea is that we remove from the server, as quickly as possible, players (strangers, regulars, or supporting members) who strike us as impeded instead of encouraged by our playstyle mindset. If, at any point during the evening, we find ourselves with oodles of approved players, yay us. If we find ourselves alone on an empty server, we'll know full well what we're up against in any hopes of hosting the game here long-term.

I personally will be joining the server at 4PM eastern Sat, at which point I will give myself some overdue orientation to the game (it's been one hell of a week). Anyone who's comfortable training me is welcome to join. I'll invite the admins to join at this time as well. When everyone present (whatever admins and forums-registered players we have at that point) is comfortable, we'll open the server publicly. At what time this happens will be dictated by everyone's comfort level with the game and the prospect of being bombarded with public players.

Before the server is opened publicly, I'll have the players with admin rights put asterisks (*) at the end of their playernames. The admins will be in TeamSpeak, and players will be encouraged to use TeamSpeak to report problem players to us as quickly as possible.

At some point Sat night, the server will again be locked down to forums-registered players.

**kormendi** · 09-17-2005, 02:03 AM

I look forward to this.

Guys be sure to be there to represent and lead by example. If you own HL2, dystopia is a free download, at least give it a try.

Spyder · 09-17-2005, 02:11 AM

I work, but I'll sneak on sometime around 7:30PM CST.

JME.Fidelity · 09-17-2005, 02:26 AM

Ill be there.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-18-2005, 12:47 PM

Well, this went very well, and we're STILL figuring the game out. I heard one comment last night was that the experience we were enjoying was "better than any pub out there." I certainly enjoyed myself.

The most surprising thing I saw was the fact that guests joining the server just weren't THAT far behind (yes, they were behind, but that's typical at TG) the TG curve when it came to teamwork and communication. Yes, among the several players who joined throughout the night, there were more than a few idiots, but that's what admins are for. On average, I was just a little surprised at how easy it was for admins. I don't know about the other admins, but I only had to kick a few people.

Bunnyhopping and crackjumping isn't an issue enough to warrant as much attention as we've given it thus far. It could become an issue if we addressed it, but I see no reason to do that, and I'm going to let someone else carry that banner (against it) for now if they feel it necessary. Bunnyhopping both feels and looks natural in this game to those who want it and affects things minimally enough so as to likely silence those who don't want it. Crackjumping wasn't a problem last night. Yeah, people jumped often enough in close melees to get the attention of someone hell-bent on screaming "crackjumper!!" on principle (which no one actually did), but I didn't see anything unreasonable. The most common "I'm-alone-and-being-shot" evasion technique I saw (which did not involve losing LOS) was strafing, most of which never left the ground.

The teamwork was very satisfying, when the gameplay knowledge of the players averaged high enough to allow it (I felt lost a lot of the night). We had forces rallying at specific map locations, moving out together, heavies moving in the front of the column, medipac lights hiding around corners during firefights (to avoid fire while still healing those taking fire), and we had coordinated and team-timed use of the TAC scanners, so as to have constant intel about those around us. That's just several instances of the kind of stuff I look for at TG. I'm sure there is more evidence of the potential this game holds here, but I'm still new to the game, so that's all I can remember right now.

The wave spawn nicely facilitates the kind of grouping that nicely lends itself to much of the above. I liked it. It allows teams with skilled individuals the freedom to send them out alone if they want to, but it all but forces teams who suck to work ... "near each other," if not "together"... as they're often going to find themselves spawning together and at the same time.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-18-2005, 12:51 PM

Despite that seemingly-glowing review, I like the server in its current state until the voicecomm labels work, as the teamplay we experienced last night works best when you know who's talking. Right now, knowing who's talking requires that you either know the sound of someone's voice or keep LOS on their model (as voice icons do hover above the models of those speaking).

I think admins being present during public gameplay is required, not optional.

I think the gameplay will be more enjoyable than it already is when the voicecomm labels work.

[CoFR]Bloodbane · 09-18-2005, 01:12 PM

Well, I am glad to hear it went well. I for one, like the game a lot and would love to have a place to play it where teamwork, communication, and effective admining is the norm.
I jumped on as soon as I got the kids to bed, unfortunatly that was about 10 mins before you guys shut it down

I will be checking back regularly as the server status changes.
I think the potential for teamwork this game offers will be much more rewarding than many other fps games. When a group of punks successfully take the security room and then set up to defend their hacker, the sense of achievement is really there. I have felt it often on pubs, I can only imagine it will be better on a TG server.

Karkianman101 · 09-18-2005, 02:05 PM

Is there a way to have it auto adjust so that when an admin isnt connected its registered members only, and when an admin is connected its public?

**Wyzcrak** · 09-18-2005, 05:10 PM

We could do something similar to that, but that would require that we have admins.

Mateo · 09-20-2005, 04:11 PM

Ok, I'll bite. If you want to do this again another night, say any night but Saturday, I'll admin. We don't have SOPs yet, but I think I can grok what works for TG, and what does not on pretty much any game. besides, I'm interested in seeing what makes two upstanding members such as Wyzcrak and Pokerface so intrigued.

**Phantom** · 09-20-2005, 04:15 PM

I would be glad to help out with any adminging needs if we have the player base to support having a server. If there is to be another night like this then I would enjoy helping out.

**kormendi** · 09-20-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

Ok, I'll bite. If you want to do this again another night, say any night but Saturday, I'll admin. We don't have SOPs yet, but I think I can grok what works for TG, and what does not on pretty much any game. besides, I'm interested in seeing what makes two upstanding members such as Wyzcrak and Pokerface so intrigued.

I advise you to take some time to play through the level alone, as a punk, until you have figured out the objectives and how they work. If you jump on the server without prior knowledge of the game you will lack the know how to see anything other than a frag fest, and you will have a hard time devising your own guidelines to admin with.

It is not the typical TG game and cannot be approched with the same mindset, but it does have vast potential at being highly team oriented and complex. I see the current map as being one that is severely limiting the potential gameplay. Future maps will really define the game.

Spyder · 09-20-2005, 07:56 PM

Or check the dystopia forums, I have a pair of quickie text guides to the demo, both threads have links to the official new players guide from the dyst dev team. either/or/obth would be a good read before you attempt to just jump right in.

[CoFR]Bloodbane · 09-21-2005, 05:37 PM

Yay! I hope you guys set a date soon so I can mark my calendar. If you decide to do a training night I would gladly share some of my know-how of the game if I am able. I am currently addicted and have picked up alot.

shroompicker · 09-23-2005, 04:14 PM

I'm really enjoying the game. I've been pubbing a lot, found a few servers with a minimum "pub" feel to it.

I describe it to new guys as "Like TFC, but Cyberpunk and much more complex".

It seems to me the dynamic of the game requires players on each team must fight well in both the real and cyber worlds. Without a hacker, your team will either have a very hard time making it, or in some places on the map, just won't make it at all. Without physical guards around the hacker, he gets sliced by a cloaker with a katana. If a team is very close to a terminal deep in enemy territory, a newly capped objective will just get re-capped quickly. You need cloakers, tac scanners, thermals on your team. Lots of rock-paper-scissors type dilemmas, as well as much need to communicate, which is what TG types enjoy.

Anyone who loves engineer in TFC or gorge in NS will love hacking in Dystopia. It's an energy management problem, a hacker jacked in needs to make flash decisions about what needs to be done and what he can do in the time he has left. Multiple hackers need to tag-team whenever one runs out and take over offensive/defensive duties constantly in cyberspace. You can never let an enemy hacker roam free, your team will just loose the objective.

Come to think of it, ignoring your objective will lead to your team loosing fast. Really. Unlike CS, I think Dystopia naturally prevents deathmaching. Teams who do nothing but shoot have a boring game fast. Punks who DM will keep spawning and getting reamed on the roof, or running around an empty roof only to get reamed by the campers in cargo. Corps who DM will find themselves defending the core with no defenses at 12 minutes left, and a single cloaker will katana the core. Hackers without guards will cuss the team out for getting sliced in the back. Shooters waiting for doors to open will cuss the team out for not hacking. Hmm.. Discuss?

09-17-2005, 01:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Apophis has not yet selected admins for Dystopia, so the server remains open only to forums-registered players. As anyone who's paying close attention might have gathered, reasonable doubt has been raised as to whether this game "belongs" here. I've been given the go-ahead to open the server up just long enough for me to "test the waters," so to speak. Saturday evening, I'm going to open the server so that it is public. Anyone registered in the forums will have a reserved slot. I will be inviting (don't ask) a small number of admins to assist me in a rather unorthodox approach: little-to-no-warning playstyle enforcement. Some things will just see players magically disappear. Because it's such a touchy topic in this game, no player (stranger, regular, or SM) will be popped for jumping of any shape, flavor, or form without at least (and, in some instances, most) one warning. To be honest, I'm not sure how well this is going to work. But I know this much... if this game is going to make it here, it's going to be because the server takes a very hardline approach to enforcing the ideals of TG which can thrive in Dystopia without killing that which makes it unique enough to justify its having a home here. If Apophis ever forms an admin team for this game, he'll then lay out (implicitly, if not explicitly) exactly which of those ideals that admin team will enforce. I'll be selecting for tomorrow night's trial the ideals that I see as critical, as best my judgement allows, and making sure they're enforced by the admins I invite to assist me. The idea is that we remove from the server, as quickly as possible, players (strangers, regulars, or supporting members) who strike us as impeded instead of encouraged by our playstyle mindset. If, at any point during the evening, we find ourselves with oodles of approved players, yay us. If we find ourselves alone on an empty server, we'll know full well what we're up against in any hopes of hosting the game here long-term. I personally will be joining the server at 4PM eastern Sat, at which point I will give myself some overdue orientation to the game (it's been one hell of a week). Anyone who's comfortable training me is welcome to join. I'll invite the admins to join at this time as well. When everyone present (whatever admins and forums-registered players we have at that point) is comfortable, we'll open the server publicly. At what time this happens will be dictated by everyone's comfort level with the game and the prospect of being bombarded with public players. Before the server is opened publicly, I'll have the players with admin rights put asterisks () at the end of their playernames. The admins will be in TeamSpeak,* and players will be encouraged to use TeamSpeak to report problem players to us as quickly as possible. At some point Sat night, the server will again be locked down to forums-registered players. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-17-2005, 02:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
kormendi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Age: 27 Posts: 2,148	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) I look forward to this. Guys be sure to be there to represent and lead by example. If you own HL2, dystopia is a free download, at least give it a try. __________________ Team Fortress 2 Admin \| NS Admin PM me if you have any questions/concerns regarding the server.

09-17-2005, 02:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
Spyder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: MN (Middle of Nowhere, MN) Age: 25 Posts: 984	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) I work, but I'll sneak on sometime around 7:30PM CST. __________________ a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin Celibacy is not Hereditary. Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink. Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth. Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

09-17-2005, 02:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
JME.Fidelity Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA, Maryland Age: 17 Posts: 83	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Ill be there.

09-18-2005, 12:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Well, this went very well, and we're STILL figuring the game out. I heard one comment last night was that the experience we were enjoying was "better than any pub out there." I certainly enjoyed myself. The most surprising thing I saw was the fact that guests joining the server just weren't THAT far behind (yes, they were behind, but that's typical at TG) the TG curve when it came to teamwork and communication. Yes, among the several players who joined throughout the night, there were more than a few idiots, but that's what admins are for. On average, I was just a little surprised at how easy it was for admins. I don't know about the other admins, but I only had to kick a few people. Bunnyhopping and crackjumping isn't an issue enough to warrant as much attention as we've given it thus far. It could become an issue if we addressed it, but I see no reason to do that, and I'm going to let someone else carry that banner (against it) for now if they feel it necessary. Bunnyhopping both feels and looks natural in this game to those who want it and affects things minimally enough so as to likely silence those who don't want it. Crackjumping wasn't a problem last night. Yeah, people jumped often enough in close melees to get the attention of someone hell-bent on screaming "crackjumper!!" on principle (which no one actually did), but I didn't see anything unreasonable. The most common "I'm-alone-and-being-shot" evasion technique I saw (which did not involve losing LOS) was strafing, most of which never left the ground. The teamwork was very satisfying, when the gameplay knowledge of the players averaged high enough to allow it (I felt lost a lot of the night). We had forces rallying at specific map locations, moving out together, heavies moving in the front of the column, medipac lights hiding around corners during firefights (to avoid fire while still healing those taking fire), and we had coordinated and team-timed use of the TAC scanners, so as to have constant intel about those around us. That's just several instances of the kind of stuff I look for at TG. I'm sure there is more evidence of the potential this game holds here, but I'm still new to the game, so that's all I can remember right now. The wave spawn nicely facilitates the kind of grouping that nicely lends itself to much of the above. I liked it. It allows teams with skilled individuals the freedom to send them out alone if they want to, but it all but forces teams who suck to work ... "near each other," if not "together"... as they're often going to find themselves spawning together and at the same time. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-18-2005, 12:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Despite that seemingly-glowing review, I like the server in its current state until the voicecomm labels work, as the teamplay we experienced last night works best when you know who's talking. Right now, knowing who's talking requires that you either know the sound of someone's voice or keep LOS on their model (as voice icons do hover above the models of those speaking). I think admins being present during public gameplay is required, not optional. I think the gameplay will be more enjoyable than it already is when the voicecomm labels work. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-18-2005, 01:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
[CoFR]Bloodbane Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 33 Posts: 53	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Well, I am glad to hear it went well. I for one, like the game a lot and would love to have a place to play it where teamwork, communication, and effective admining is the norm. I jumped on as soon as I got the kids to bed, unfortunatly that was about 10 mins before you guys shut it down I will be checking back regularly as the server status changes. I think the potential for teamwork this game offers will be much more rewarding than many other fps games. When a group of punks successfully take the security room and then set up to defend their hacker, the sense of achievement is really there. I have felt it often on pubs, I can only imagine it will be better on a TG server.

09-18-2005, 02:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,545	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Is there a way to have it auto adjust so that when an admin isnt connected its registered members only, and when an admin is connected its public?

09-18-2005, 05:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) We could do something similar to that, but that would require that we have admins. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-20-2005, 04:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mateo Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37 Posts: 6,483	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Ok, I'll bite. If you want to do this again another night, say any night but Saturday, I'll admin. We don't have SOPs yet, but I think I can grok what works for TG, and what does not on pretty much any game. besides, I'm interested in seeing what makes two upstanding members such as Wyzcrak and Pokerface so intrigued.

09-20-2005, 07:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Spyder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: MN (Middle of Nowhere, MN) Age: 25 Posts: 984	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Or check the dystopia forums, I have a pair of quickie text guides to the demo, both threads have links to the official new players guide from the dyst dev team. either/or/obth would be a good read before you attempt to just jump right in. __________________ a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin Celibacy is not Hereditary. Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink. Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth. Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

09-21-2005, 05:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
[CoFR]Bloodbane Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 33 Posts: 53	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) Yay! I hope you guys set a date soon so I can mark my calendar. If you decide to do a training night I would gladly share some of my know-how of the game if I am able. I am currently addicted and have picked up alot.

09-23-2005, 04:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
shroompicker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Arizona Age: 34 Posts: 183	Re: Public Dystopia (Sat evening) I'm really enjoying the game. I've been pubbing a lot, found a few servers with a minimum "pub" feel to it. I describe it to new guys as "Like TFC, but Cyberpunk and much more complex". It seems to me the dynamic of the game requires players on each team must fight well in both the real and cyber worlds. Without a hacker, your team will either have a very hard time making it, or in some places on the map, just won't make it at all. Without physical guards around the hacker, he gets sliced by a cloaker with a katana. If a team is very close to a terminal deep in enemy territory, a newly capped objective will just get re-capped quickly. You need cloakers, tac scanners, thermals on your team. Lots of rock-paper-scissors type dilemmas, as well as much need to communicate, which is what TG types enjoy. Anyone who loves engineer in TFC or gorge in NS will love hacking in Dystopia. It's an energy management problem, a hacker jacked in needs to make flash decisions about what needs to be done and what he can do in the time he has left. Multiple hackers need to tag-team whenever one runs out and take over offensive/defensive duties constantly in cyberspace. You can never let an enemy hacker roam free, your team will just loose the objective. Come to think of it, ignoring your objective will lead to your team loosing fast. Really. Unlike CS, I think Dystopia naturally prevents deathmaching. Teams who do nothing but shoot have a boring game fast. Punks who DM will keep spawning and getting reamed on the roof, or running around an empty roof only to get reamed by the campers in cargo. Corps who DM will find themselves defending the core with no defenses at 12 minutes left, and a single cloaker will katana the core. Hackers without guards will cuss the team out for getting sliced in the back. Shooters waiting for doors to open will cuss the team out for not hacking. Hmm.. Discuss?

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