PrinceThaine

Alright well this isnt meant as a rant but a list of not usable terms would be nice. Well recently I have been on and seen admins pulling the language card when people say **** or ass. Am I the only person who watches TV? Broadcast TV level means you can pretty much say anything except the f bomb unless you of course are talking about someone else. Can anyone clear up what is and is not acceptable? I tend to only say something if a remark is said towards someone else or of course the f bomb. So basically since I cant find any clear definition ANYWHERE what is not acceptible as the list will be shorter that what is acceptible.

Edit, wow thats great, our forums dont allow the use of s-h-i-t, like that isnt a broadcast term or anything..........

TheFeniX

Ok, people have probably noticed me hit my "Watch your language" bind a few times. An astute observer would notice that the only times I really hit it is if:

1. The word is actually in violation of server rules.
2. It's a racial/sexual slur
3. It's aimed at another player.
4. They say an "acceptable word" numerous times in an "angry" manner.

Number 3 is the one I've been nailing people for the most often. Calling someone a "butt" on the Dystopia server is in violation of server rules. Further, I don't even really see a need for that word (but I'm not going to censor it).

I need to create a few more binds for Dystopia (compared to the plethora that I have for PCS), but I hit my language bind because: I have it. In fact, I'm not even creating more binds because I'm going to use mani_mod so all admins have access to the same binds to use with ease.

I'm not even concerned about the language all that much. What I'm concerned with is the attitude that almost always comes with that language. Do you really need to use the word "ass" when conveying a message to other players? Is taking the time to type out a curse-word really necessary? Are you accomplishing anything worthwhile with the action?

No. And you're a TG member or reg. Those rules are really only around for the pubs. As TG a member, you're better than that. You conduct yourself in a mature and respectful manner. Yes, you'll have slip-ups (I know I have them), but I want people to come in and see that TG "runs a tight ship" and we're better than 99% of what's out there. Language is one easy thing to change in that pursuit.

You want a rule of thumb to get yourself by on the Dystopia server? Ask yourself how other people who don't know you would perceive your mannerisms. If you believe they would think of you as a mature player: you're doing good. If those people would think you're a kid pushing the limits of the server rules: rethink your language and attitude.

Poke fun at your friends (granted, I'd make sure it's easy to tell you're just having fun), make jokes, laugh when something funny happens, just try and maintain an attitude people can respect while doing it.

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Chewy

Very well said. It really does boil down to the present situation and the attitude of that person... and obviously admins perceptions may vary a little.

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PrinceThaine

I am asking because having been around for a bit it seems every admin, temp or not, have their own perception of what the rules are. This creates a very unbalenanced moderation of the server causing at times one thing is acceptable while at another time it is not depending who is on. I am not saying that everyone is perfect. We all have our slipups but how can anyone be accpected to abide by a rule that is determined for the most part by the admin who is on at the time? That is just about worthless without atleast a general guideline to what should be regulated and what should be let go.

So fine, next time someone calls someone an ass and types it we should what? Tell them to say it next time because writing it is a waste?

CingularDuality

When has that word ever been used on broadcast television in the USA? Don't confuse broadcast TV, which is regulated by the FCC, with cable television, which isn't regulated...

TacticalGamer's "broadcast TV" standard, combined with the requirement for respect, is very straightforward. How an individual admin exercises discretion in enforcing the standard is a completely different story. But let's not confuse these two issues...

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jmh1981

The following shows that there are only two words that are considered profanity by “Broadcast Television” standards.

Edited to allow posting here.

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Broadcast Indecency Regulation: The Profanity Standard

In Complaints Regarding Various Television Broadcasts Between February 2, 2002 and March 8, 2005 (FCC 06-17, Mar. 15, 2006), the FCC discussed the standard used for determining when broadcasters violate the prohibition on broadcast profanity. The broadcast of "obscene, indecent, or profane language by means of radio communication" is prohibited. 18 USC §1464.

In the Golden Globes II decision, the FCC ruled that "f**k" is profane. Here, the Commission provides a somewhat more comprehensive rationale for the standard it is enforcing and expands its definition of profanity to include the word "s**t" and its derivatives.

The FCC will analyze potentially profane language with respect to whether it is so grossly offensive as to constitute a nuisance. Profanity is "denoting certain of those personally reviling epithets naturally tending to provoke violent resentment or denoting language so grossly offensive to members of the public who actually hear it as to amount to a nuisance." This standard is based on the definition of profanity adopted by the Seventh Circuit in Tallman v. U.S., 465 F.2d 282 (7th Cir., 1972). The Commission finds that the "fighting words" portion of the definition is inapplicable to the broadcast context, since it "appears unlikely that broadcast material would provoke immediate violence between those uttering such words and the audience."

In order to be consistent with the First Amendment, the FCC establishes a presumption that the regulation of profane language will follow indecency regulation and be limited to the "universe of words that are sexual or excretory in nature or are derived from such terms." The presumption of profanity is limited to those certain vulgar sexual or excretory terms are so grossly offensive to members of the public that they amount to a nuisance-- "the most offensive words in the English language, the broadcast of which are likely to shock the viewer and disturb the peace and quiet of the home."

A broadcast of one of the presumptively profane words does not trigger liability where the broadcast is not likely to shock the viewer and disturb the peace and quiet. One of the "rare instances" where this occurs is where the words are seen in graffiti on the side of a train in the background of a scene.

"F**k" and "s**t" are the two words that are presumptively profane. "Bitch," "hell" and "damn" are not profane because they do not refer to sexual organs or activities and are not grossly offensive. Although "ass" and "piss" do refer to sexual or excretory organs or activities, they are not profane because they are not grossly offensive as to amount to a nuisance.

A use of "f**k" or "s**t" is not profane only in "rare cases" where such language is "demonstrably essential to the nature of an artistic or educational work or essential to informing viewers on a matter of public importance." Even though profane language may have some communicative purpose, the broadcaster must "demonstrate that it is essential to informing viewers on a matter of public importance or that editing the language in question would have a material impact on the network's function as a source of news and information."

The Commission decides that the use of profane words was not essential in "The Blues," directed by Martin Scorsese and broadcast on PBS. Previously, the FCC ruled that substituting other language in a broadcast of "Saving Private Ryan" would have “would have altered the nature of the movie and diminished the power, realism and immediacy of the film experience for viewers." In contrast, the Commission rules that such a substitution would not have materially altered "The Blues," "While we recognize here that the documentary had an educational purpose, we believe that purpose could have been fulfilled and all viewpoints expressed without the repeated broadcast of expletives."

The FCC may decide whether a use of "f**k" or "s**t" is profane based on the Commissioners' decision that the broadcast lacks artistic merit or newsworthiness.

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So by filtering words other then f**k and s**t you are going beyond “Broadcast Television” standards.

And other then f**k, unless it is aimed at someone in particular, I personally can’t understand how someone could have a problem with a words usage. (Other than someone saying something over and over for no reason, but that goes for anything not just profanity.)

And I don’t mean you as admins when I say that I mean someone hearing it, because if it's not grossly offensive as to amount to a nuisance it is no longer considered profanity.

Apophis

This is your first post. Welcome to TG.

Your first post being argumentative isn't a great way to start. Maybe an introduction, a general hello, or something of that nature. But creating your account to come and gripe and only post content that backs up what you WANT to believe isn't going to get you very far.

No, we are not going beyond broadcast standards. Spend some more time on the FCC site and make sure you look up profane, indecent AND oscene context and how they relate to one another. Tactical Gamer doesn't honor any safe-harbor timeslot, so keep that in mind as well.

It would be nice if some individuals could put this much effort into simply acting like an adult rather than trying to get around the language filters and/or doing research just so they can curse on the servers.

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jmh1981

Here you go:

I'm jmh1981 from WW3 Gaming, www*ww3gaming*com (It wouldn't let me post it right)
Real Name: Jason Matthew Herrington
Born: 11/24/1981
Email: jmh1981@ww3gaming.com
MSN: jmh_81@yahoo.com
SteamID: STEAM_0:1:7040530
I live near Flint, MI, USA

1) I NEVER use profanity around people I don’t know very well, which would include any public computer game server.

2) I was bored.

3) I wasn’t being argumentative, I was just pointing out a perceived flaw in the argument you were using.

4) Never once did I say you shouldn’t control profanity on your server.

5) You can run your servers how ever you want, you’re the ones paying for them.

6) I am an admin on the WW3 servers and while we do allow profanity we do not allow people to be derogatory at someone specific.

7) I was rather bored at the time.

8) Because I am an admin on a server I know you not the players have the rights to how the server is run, thus why I didn’t say you should allow profanity on your servers.

9) If you notice I used the term personally in the last part, which was to let you know that what I was saying next was how I felt on the issue and not how you should have your rules setup.

10) The only reason I even knew about the thread was because you have a TGBot in your, apparently unused by you, IRC channel that announces new threads. Not because I was searching your forum for a thread like this.

11) Did I mention that I was bored?

12) Finally, The reason I didn’t take the time to introduce myself was because I wasn’t really intending to join your community (I’m already part of another one) as I said I was bored and the thread announced in your IRC channel seemed semi interesting at the time.

PS: I was bored.

CingularDuality

This is not true, as you pointed out. Context means something, but word filters can't grasp context. So, in order to avoid offensive statements, we've decided to filter words that are often censored from broadcast television, as well as other words that are often used in a offensive manner. Don't confuse our word filter with our rule on language. They're two different things that do overlap.
Which channel is this? I've never seen a bot in our channel that announces new threads...

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TheFeniX

Be specific: you're talking about the language rule, which is so superfluous to the playing of the game, I wonder why it's even an issue.

Whatever an admin feels is allowed or not in reference to language and maturity may vary until such time as we have all (admins) come to an agreement on how we want our players to act. But I seriously doubt it varies as much as people seem to think.

I'll ask this: Who cares? It's language. Does not being able to curse like a sailor affect your game in any way, shape, or form? Are you unable to capture objectives and win a map based upon your ability to drop f-bombs and "WTFLAG!" ?

No.
This isn't a boundary issue in Counter-Strike, which has been (and probably always will be) a hotly debated issue at TG.
This isn't about emping deckers, spawn camping, or map exploits.

This is about a persons ability to say certain words and act like an adult.

How about you focus on completing your objective? How about you play the game?

Do I (and other admins) seriously have to spell out how to act like a mature individual? Is the ability to curse so utterly important to a TG player that it warrants it's own thread open to public debate?

No, it's not. A question was asked and I answered it. If anyone else has any questions about language and maturity: please PM me.

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