Protecting the decker

**Root** · 04-03-2006, 05:38 AM

Whilst playing on saturday, I noticed a lack of objective based play. In an attempt to counter this, I let my team know I was going to start decking. Not the smartest thing for a nub to do, but as Fenix can testify, smart is rarely my forte

I died a couple of times whilst decking, because my calls for backup were ignored. This is TG. When a team mate calls for backup, we damn well drop what we're doing. At the very least, we communicate the fact that we're pinned down by enemy fire (as opposed to busy racking up another kill) and can't get to where we're needed.

There was a disappointing lack of this kind of behaviour, despite a number of TG tags, and players who are clearly regulars on our server.

Eventually, I got some backup, and I successfully disabled some pesky turrets that were pinning us down. Being new to the game, I then struggled to find my way back to meatspace. When I emerged, I was alone.

I may be new to Dystopia, but I'm not new to online gaming. I'm also not new to the tactics and stratagies associated with same. In fact, I've been known to excel when it comes to this facet of gaming. I can see why there may be times when speed is of the essence following a successful hack. That said, if a stealted decker from the other team had killed me, and then reversed what I had achieved by hacking, it's possible those turrets might have reverted to the other teams control with.... unfortunate consequences.

Should we not be ensuring that deckers are protected not just until they finish hacking, but until they find their way back to meatspace? It prevents the other team quickly reversing the damage you've done. It also means that you're not moving on with a man down, which can make all the difference in a firefight.

Thoughts?

**kormendi** · 04-03-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Root

until they find their way back to meatspace?

When decking all you need to do to 'find your way back' is to turn off your cyberdeck implant. This can be done immediately after completing your objective in cyberspace.

**Root** · 04-03-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by kormendi

When decking all you need to do to 'find your way back' is to turn off your cyberdeck implant. This can be done immediately after completing your objective in cyberspace.

Can you point me in the direction of the default key?

**Pokerface** · 04-03-2006, 10:51 AM

F1.

**Root** · 04-03-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Pokerface

F1.

Danke.

My point stands with regard to protecting the decker whilst they're hacking.

**Renagade** · 04-03-2006, 11:40 AM

Yes, defending the decker is very important.
Unfortunatly each maps defensive strategy is different and many/most people don't know all of them.

Here are a couple things they should always keep in mind:
1) Never defend from right next to or in the room with the decker... its pretty much useless. Try to stay outside the decking room, or at least line yourself up to mow down wherever the other team's coming from.
2) Kill lights absolutely as fast as and don't let them anywhere close to open doors. All they have to do it get an EMP anywhere close to the decker and the party's over in cyberspace.
3) TALK to the decker if trouble's coming or has come. Light's move quickly and there's a good chance they can run and maybe even hide if they get out of cyberspace fast enough. (If you don't have a mic yet, grab one somewhere. They're like $20 and you can use it for every game for the rest of your life.)
4) Defending the decker willing is admittedly a boring and aruous job, but keep in mind, there are some objectives that absolutely cannot be captured without decking. Sure, you can pwn n00bs to your hearts content, but your team will never win if you don't keep your deckers alive.

That's my two cents. And I'm still pretty much a newbie myself.

Any other pointers, anyone?

~Renagade

**Zephyr** · 04-03-2006, 05:31 PM

All these points are very good, but I must stress these points

Just because you are getting killed or EMPed does not mean that your teammates are not trying, and blantant ridicule of your teammates is by no means any more acceptable in this situation.

If you find yourself incapacitated, state that you are over voice comm so that players will recognize the need to protect you in the future. If this does not work, when your sensors come back online, ask someone near you to defend you.

Dystopia players are, usually, VERY willing to defend their deckers if they are asked, as it gives them additional points to do so and a great feeling of satisfaction when they kill that bloody infiltrator and know they saved their decker.

Now Root, your points are good but I feel that your inexperience may have exposed you to apparant lack of teamwork when there may have been just the opposite. There are several instances I can think of where the best defense of a decker is to in fact move away from him. On dys_fortress alone I can point out to you many locations where a defensive unit will stay to protect his/her deckers without actually being in the same room. If you stand by your decker, there is no way for you to block an EMP grenade and thus protect him from one of two ugly ends.

While I'm not saying that you were oblivious to teamwork, and I can imagine that there could have been none, I must stress that there are reasons that perhaps you do not understand yet for what you saw, but will come with time. One thing that comes to mind is that you were surprised to find yourself alone when you returned to meatspace after capturing an objective.

When a cyberspace objective is captured and the decker finishes defense if he can, the real world guardian generally chooses to go help where he is clearly needed now, at the next due meatspace objective. After the point of defense, the decker is commonly expected to defend for himself as he jacks out and regains energy until he can return to decking. I'm not saying this is correct procedure, but it is what I commonly see and works quite well. If you persist in navigating cyberspace even after your energy is too low to continue, a flaw of yours caused only by inexperience, the defender may make the rational conclusion that his skills are needed elsewhere. What is missing here is communication, and this is usually caused by the fast paced nature of the game and a overwhelming lack of computer microphones among it's players.

To the community: It isn't voice spam if it helps the team coordinate. Remember that and use your microphones liberally.

-Zephyr

**Chewy** · 04-03-2006, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zephyr

If you stand by your decker, there is no way for you to block an EMP grenade and thus protect him from one of two ugly ends.

Actually Zephy... I was defending a decker on objective 2 in vaccine once and they opened the door and I moved so fast forward that the emp bounced right off my chest! *bows* But you are right, generally staying the same room is not the best option.

Moving on... I really wish awards weren't part of the game, or at least were modified. There is no award for defending the decker. While you do get assist points, awards seem to be most people's driving force which irritates me to no end. Soft tissue is the only award I'm proud of because that means I tried my damndest and I was going for the objective, not kills. And remember, protecting the decker IS part of the objective, it is not to be ignored.

I wish more people would answer the call when a decker calls for help... it's one of the failure points on almost every team.

**Renagade** · 04-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Nice Zeph.
Very sweet elaboration.

And Chewy: I agree, I think the scoring should be rethought entirely.
You don't get very many points for decking either.
But... I wouldn't know how to work it. Maybe location-based kill scoring or something.

Thanks guys!
~Ren

**Root** · 04-04-2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Now Root, your points are good but I feel that your inexperience may have exposed you to apparant lack of teamwork when there may have been just the opposite.

I can tell when a server has descended into deathmatch.

When nobody on the team is calling plans or issuing clear orders, when no-one responds in any way to a decker calling for backup, when no-one is attempting to complete the objective, there is no teamwork. This is the short version of what I experienced on the server.

When Chewy joined our team, the change was obvious. He was calling orders, trying to guide the people on our team into acting as a unit, and generally doing everything you would expect me to do as a team commander on the PCS server.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Just because you are getting killed or EMPed does not mean that your teammates are not trying,

That statement, on it's own, is an unquestionable fact. That statement, when applied to the situation I was in, is false. The almost complete lack of *any* communication (and little if none of it was relevant to our team and it's objective) indicates that there is no teamwork. If it had been a match, and the team had a well rehearsed drill, there would indeed be little need for comms. I've been there and done that many times. However, with people coming and going from the server, this clearly was not the case. It was clear to any who read my comms, that I was new to the game, but little if any help was sent my way. I did see a remark aimed at someone (possibly the team) about reconfiguring, but it was abrasive, and had no follow-up suggestion as to HOW we should reconfigure.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Just because you are getting killed or EMPed does not mean that your teammates are not trying, and blantant ridicule of your teammates is by no means any more acceptable in this situation.

I'm confused. Has someone relayed to you that this happened in the game I'm referring to? I saw nothing of the kind.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I must stress that there are reasons that perhaps you do not understand yet for what you saw, but will come with time.

I'm happy for someone to educate me as to what the reasons are. My experience tells me that what I saw was the majority of players on my team taking care of themselves and their KDR.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

One thing that comes to mind is that you were surprised to find yourself alone when you returned to meatspace after capturing an objective.

Yet again, this was due to a lack of communication from my more experienced and knowledgable team mates. I now know that I can hit F1 to exit cyberspace instantly. Had a team mate taken the time to tell the noob decker (me), I wouldn't have posted complaining about it.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

After the point of defense, the decker is commonly expected to defend for himself as he jacks out and regains energy until he can return to decking. I'm not saying this is correct procedure, but it is what I commonly see and works quite well.

If it works well, it's a valid tactic. That said, when a team mate calls for backup, the only time they SHOULDN'T get backup, is if supporting them will compromise or delay completing the objective.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

If you persist in navigating cyberspace even after your energy is too low to continue, a flaw of yours caused only by inexperience, the defender may make the rational conclusion that his skills are needed elsewhere.

Again - on the one occasion where I actually managed to get some of the team to defend me (this being the one time that we managed to take the turrets down), none of the defenders took the time to tell me about hitting F1. They had time to type stuff like "lol" at me, but not to share relevant knowledge.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

To the community: It isn't voice spam if it helps the team coordinate. Remember that and use your microphones liberally.

Quoted for truth.

Anyone who wants a demonstration of how effective a stream of relevant, tactical info helps the team, is welcome to join me on the PCS server. I've racked up more kills than anyone on cs_militia, and done so by communicating target locations to team mates, who have used said info to prepare a suitable welcome.

In any game, communication is one of the key components of victory. Teamwork and an excellent, flexible plan are also critical.

**Zephyr** · 04-04-2006, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Root

I can tell when a server has descended into deathmatch.

When nobody on the team is calling plans or issuing clear orders, when no-one responds in any way to a decker calling for backup, when no-one is attempting to complete the objective, there is no teamwork. This is the short version of what I experienced on the server.

When Chewy joined our team, the change was obvious. He was calling orders, trying to guide the people on our team into acting as a unit, and generally doing everything you would expect me to do as a team commander on the PCS server.

Very sorry that the server fell so far. I hope you're at least somewhat pleased that we have the proper kind of players here that work very hard when they arrive to bring back the order that has been lost. *nods to Chewy*

Originally Posted by Root

That statement, on it's own, is an unquestionable fact. That statement, when applied to the situation I was in, is false. The almost complete lack of *any* communication (and little if none of it was relevant to our team and it's objective) indicates that there is no teamwork. If it had been a match, and the team had a well rehearsed drill, there would indeed be little need for comms. I've been there and done that many times. However, with people coming and going from the server, this clearly was not the case. It was clear to any who read my comms, that I was new to the game, but little if any help was sent my way. I did see a remark aimed at someone (possibly the team) about reconfiguring, but it was abrasive, and had no follow-up suggestion as to HOW we should reconfigure.

I sincerely hope that the people who weren't helping you did not have the TG tag, if they did I will be ashamed...

Originally Posted by Root

I'm confused. Has someone relayed to you that this happened in the game I'm referring to? I saw nothing of the kind.

Sorry, this was just a statement to the community that was, I guess, poorly inserted into my overall report on your match.

Originally Posted by Root

I'm happy for someone to educate me as to what the reasons are. My experience tells me that what I saw was the majority of players on my team taking care of themselves and their KDR.

Well again I hope that you had your -new- tag on and were actively seeking out TG personnel to help you. If they didn't, that needs to be addressed. If it was a true mass of pubbies...well you're from CS:S, I'm sure you know what they are like, and they are still similar here.

Originally Posted by Root

Yet again, this was due to a lack of communication from my more experienced and knowledgable team mates. I now know that I can hit F1 to exit cyberspace instantly. Had a team mate taken the time to tell the noob decker (me), I wouldn't have posted complaining about it.

Who were these teammates? Are they TG? I'm shocked they wouldn't help you if you asked. Our server is known for being the kindest to new players as well as the most supportive.

Originally Posted by Root

If it works well, it's a valid tactic. That said, when a team mate calls for backup, the only time they SHOULDN'T get backup, is if supporting them will compromise or delay completing the objective.

Quoted for Truth.

Originally Posted by Root

Again - on the one occasion where I actually managed to get some of the team to defend me (this being the one time that we managed to take the turrets down), none of the defenders took the time to tell me about hitting F1. They had time to type stuff like "lol" at me, but not to share relevant knowledge.

I've never seen anyone blatantly laugh at another player's poor decking skill on this server. Primarily the knowledge of a poor decker is followed by either A) instruction or B) kind request for them to remove themselves from the terminal. You nevertheless seem to have been on in a very dark time...

Originally Posted by Root

Anyone who wants a demonstration of how effective a stream of relevant, tactical info helps the team, is welcome to join me on the PCS server. I've racked up more kills than anyone on cs_militia, and done so by communicating target locations to team mates, who have used said info to prepare a suitable welcome.

In any game, communication is one of the key components of victory. Teamwork and an excellent, flexible plan are also critical.

Excellent points, but remember that the PCS server is still susceptable to idiots too Root! Also, we're running a demo of a game that has a VERY small playerbase! We're trying to find the best of them and train them in the art of Tactical Gaming, but our players are still limited so we can't always fill the server with perfect people like over at CS:S!
-Zephyr

**Root** · 04-04-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I sincerely hope that the people who weren't helping you did not have the TG tag, if they did I will be ashamed...

From my original post....

Originally Posted by Root

There was a disappointing lack of this kind of behaviour, despite a number of TG tags, and players who are clearly regulars on our server.

There were others who, whilst were not wearing the TG tag, *are* members of this community.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I hope that you had your -new- tag on and were actively seeking out TG personnel to help you.

I made it clear I was new. There should be no requirement for a new player to do more than that. The onus is on the members of our community to act appropriately once a player says they're new.

**Mulletman** · 04-09-2006, 08:49 PM

I defend the decker til death do we part(or he stops decking)

I agree we need more tg members defedning..and i could name a few tg regulars (and even a couple dyf regs but they get swift retribution by me XD)

If someones is decking(esp on infect) STAY THERE

**Root** · 04-10-2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mulletman

I agree we need more tg members defedning..and i could name a few tg regulars

You would do the community a service, if you contacted a PM with specific incidents and complaints.

**Zephyr** · 04-10-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Root

You would do the community a service, if you contacted a PM with specific incidents and complaints.

Seconded. May seem a bit much, but Root's pretty much right that the reins need to be tightened here now that we have an established community.
-Zephyr