How do you kill MiG 29's? - Page 2

TG_PolishBoogieman · 04-14-2006, 09:12 PM

FWIW, that training mission is designed to teach you how to operate the FCR and deploy the slammers, using the freeze function. I don't think it was meant to be flown as a "mission." No real-world pilot in his or her right mind would attempt to engage all those bandits on his or her own.

I'm not saying it's not fun to try. I'm saying that if you can't beat it, don't feel bad. It's a tough scenario for sure.

Ridler · 04-15-2006, 02:38 AM

The thing I found with engaging any fighter is that you must know good BFM. Don't fall into the illusion that just because you have missiles there is going to be a quick kill. This is far from the truth. Also, don't fall into the illusion that just because your up against a Mig 29 your going to lose. If you know good BFM then there is no reason for you to die. What I did was practice BFM step by step in dogfight starting with Mig 19s and then working my way up. The things I found were to get in behind him first. Most fights are turning fights(loops).Never lose sight of the bandit. Padlock him and keep him on your lift vector. If he has missiles defeat the missiles first, don't worry about the fighter. Beam the missile on your 3/9 line. Keep your energy up, slow down and your a sitting duck. Keep up the turning fight, you must get into his turn circle, if he is in yours then dive out of it and start a new circle, try to get in his circle. Mig 29s have a nasty habit of suddenly flying through the centre of the circle and stalling at the top, so as your diving they gain instant access to your rear, beware of this. If he goes centre then you need to go centre immediately and try to stall after him, this gives you a two second gun shot at a sitting target.I have put screenshots of this in the screenshot section. Basically, you must enter a visual turning engagement , if you keep up the fast turn circles pulling lots of Gs he usually bugs out due to lack of fuel, unless you have unlimited fuel option turned on. If he's less than 25 miles from you and you run you will proberbly die, turn and fight.To be successful you need to learn and regognise all forms of BFM including Pursuit course, Attack Geometry, Ranging, Beaming, Notching, Aspect angles, Plane of motion, Lead pursuit, Lag pursuit, pure pursuit, in and out of plane maneuvering and so on. This is not as technical as it sounds and are short training sessions. I practiced these over and over and now I find the AMRAAM training mission easy where as before I thought it impossible.. The trick is to give the bandits as hard as possible aspect and radar problems so that they have to maneuver for a shot or are left wondering where you went. Remember, this is what the AI pilots have been programmed to do so you also need to learn the same. As Polish points out, this would be suicide in the real world and wouldn't happen but I found this mission to be a good BFM training mission as well .BFM skills actually apply to all concepts of tactical maneuvering including surface attacks so are essential to learn if you expect to win. I too got sick of being shot down but not any more. I mainly learned from the book, Primas Official Strategy Guide, FALCON 4.0, written by Pete Bonanni and Jamie Reiner, two ex F16 pilots. Its expensive but well written if you can get your hands on it.

Pavehawk · 04-15-2006, 09:50 AM

I remember Pete from the AOTK (Art of the Kill) videos that came with Falcon 3 Gold. I wonder if I can get those to play still.

munchkin · 04-15-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavehawk

I remember Pete from the AOTK (Art of the Kill) videos that came with Falcon 3 Gold. I wonder if I can get those to play still.

That video was actually incredibly interesting and useful. It's sitting on my desktop now

Pavehawk · 04-15-2006, 08:32 PM

Now look what you made me do Munchkin. I've cracked open that old Falcon 3.0 Gold box and discovered that I have the printed AOTK book from Pete and the CD-ROM. Wow, this thing's from 12 years ago.

Ridler · 04-15-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavehawk

I remember Pete from the AOTK (Art of the Kill) videos that came with Falcon 3 Gold. I wonder if I can get those to play still.

I haven't seen those videos but heard they were good. I was going to get it but never did. Thanks for reminding me of them, I'll do a search to see if there still around.

Here's the books
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...te+Bonanni&z=y

Found this video
http://www.ugamedia.com/cd/f16.htm

Here's the Falcon 3.0 manual. Seems the video that came with it is as rare as hens teeth
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_041a.html

Pavehawk · 04-16-2006, 12:20 AM

I found this link on Frugal's talking about getting this running on XP. It looks like I've got my work cut out for me if I want to watch these videos again.

Sorry I guess this has migrated from killing 29's to basic BFM and an old Falcon 3.0 feature/add on.

Ridler · 04-16-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Sorry I guess this has migrated from killing 29's to basic BFM and an old Falcon 3.0 feature/add on

Isn't that how you kill Mig 29s, by learning good BFM? After all, your virtual life depends on your ability to handle your aircraft better than your enemy can perform in his or you'll become a red streak across the virtual skys very quickly,lol

jex · 04-19-2006, 04:43 PM

You shouldn't be using BFM's in this training mission. This is and should be a BVR engagement - that is what you carry Amraam's for. If it gets WVR then you've missed something.

Hit the burner and quickly lock up the 1st mig. Head up to get above them. As soon as you are RMAX 1 shoot and crank but keep your speed up. Keep using padlock to find any missiles coming your way if they do, hit the burner and split S. If not then as soon as you get pitbul lock up the other and shoot.

You then have the 2 mig 29's to get. Speed around the cockpit is the key here. Lock them up quickly and fire as soon as you can.

After that I'm out of missiles and I have no guns?? This is the amraam training mission for Korea 2005.