Deer Season - Page 2

**Long Bow** · 11-27-2007, 10:42 AM

Thats too bad, it would have been better to miss all together. Good luck with the rest of the season.

This is a website that shows, through some rather crude tests, the effects of different bullets on different materials, interesting stuff.

www.theboxotruth.com

Enjoy.

cfss · 11-27-2007, 07:20 PM

Where in the US was this? just curious

IMI-50AE · 11-28-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillespie

Seriously. Next time be sure to bring the .470 Nitro Express or the .585 Nyati. :P

For that matter, why not use a 20mm?

Cold_Viking · 11-29-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoorGunner53E

...I was just fascinated by the fact that this animal was not killed by the energy potential behind this round, It passed throughthe deer, went through a 2" diameter tree root and made an 8" round X 1.5" deep exploded depression in the ground.

Clean entry, clean exit from the sound of it. Without a mushrooming effect, the round has the potential to miss all the vital stuff and only leave a bad flesh wound - which, like you saw from the blood trail, could very easily be lethal, however on a big animal like a deer there's a lot of meat without anything important in it.

Based on the fact that it did so much damage in the ground (no offense lol) the round just didn't release much energy on the deer's internals. Think about it, if I get hit in the flank and the round passed straight through me, I'd bleed like a sonofabitch, but I'd be moving and alert - allbeit in a great amount of pain.

I'm no ballistics expert but that's all just an educated guess.

submit7 · 11-30-2007, 02:25 AM

If they were the 190 sierra boat tail match rounds, and not a specific hunting round, then they were not designed to expand in the animal. That's why you got the pass through...always use a bullet designed to expand. I am pretty sure those bullets are "technically" hollow point but not the kind designed to expand. The little hollow in the end of the bullet is part of the manufacturing process. Don't get me wrong, if a human were hit with that it would be lights out...but animals tend to be harder to put down than people and so you really need the maximum permanent wound channel like a true expanding point bullet gives you. I have heard MANY stories of hunters using FMJs on game and the animal just runs away.

Good luck next time. I am going to dust off the old A-bolt and hit the woods this week myself.

DoorGunner53E · 11-30-2007, 12:41 PM

Yeah, I was mistaken the "Hollowpoint" aspect. He just said, "Hey, try these"! No more "Sniper / NATO" rounds on the elusive Deer. Should have just tried the headshot, I had time...

msdz · 12-03-2007, 07:19 PM

OK, this is my personal opinion on the .300 Win. Mag., to much gun for whitetail deer. Here in WV very few people I know have anything over a .30-06. Reason why is mainly due to the fact you really can't get to many good open long shots at a deer with all the hills and brush in the woods. I have had a 7mm mag. and shot quite a few deer with it and found out anything at a relatively short distance to the gun I had to chase deer all over the hillsides and down in valleys before I found and was able to drag them out(they always die where no man should ever set foot and hope you don't break your neck when climbing back over the tallest mountain on Earth, no chance of ATV or anything else going down and getting back out). What I ended up doing before selling it was I waited for the best possible shot and when the deer was not moving then I would go straight for the head shot. Only way I could drop them instantly and not chase them all over the countryside. Talked to many other hunters also and they told me that it was just to much gun and had nothing to do with bullet weight cause most shots are less than 75 yards around this part of the country. With the bullets speed and regardless of it's weight it was passing through the deer and not giving it that shocking blow that would normally drop them fairly quick.
Well, I took these old hunters advice and sold the 7mm mag. and went out and bought a 30-30 and seen tremendous differences in how a deer would drop at about the same distance of 75 yards compared to the 7mm. mag. or even the 300 Win. mag. I borrowed one time from my step-dad.
Still using Teflon coated bullets was not needed. My opinion on a bullet like that would be mainly for a kill that would be less messy. Small entrance hole and small exit hole, I would want the small hole going in but a huge one coming out so the deer bleeds real quick and easy flowing, that way if they do run they are easier to track and hopefully drop over from blood loss. Which I also like when they bleed freely as well, I also think the meat taste better when it is bled out really good. The bullets you used just plain and simple were not for hunting, no expansion from a bullet such as that. If anything the bullet might have done good at a very long distance when the bullet was just starting to lose it energy, then it may have had more knock down effect to it.

I still love muzzle loader hunting the best. I feel like great-great grandpa in the frontier days when hunting with them and that the deer actually has a better chance due to misfires from the cap not igniting and the smell, nothing beats the smell of any gun going off. You can just smell the power...arghh...arghh...arghh. Oops Tim Allen jumped in the head the mention of power.

Oh, the benefit of Teflon coated bullets is it actually helps with weight retention so the bullet does lose it shape when coming out of the barrel. Some bullets actually get a flattened our or even a bubble look at high speeds just after exiting a barrel, or so I have read I don't know for a fact.
Another thing is I read was Teflon coated bullets would be used on targets that may be intended for a wound but not a kill, creating less damage to the victim if let's say they would want to take them down and then ask questions later. Just some things I had read about some uses of a Teflon bullet, most varmint hunters prefer to use Teflon coated bullets for the accuracy these bullets supposedly have.

**Tonk** · 12-03-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoorGunner53E

If anyone cares to know my misfortune, Today I woke at 0430, headed to the woods with a friends rifle he wanted me to try, a nice 300 Win Mag with USMC spec sniper rounds. 190 grain Sierra boat tails, magnum primer, yada-yada. Rained, fog all day. I shot this deer up a hillside, and it ran AWAY!! I have not found him yet, A 300 Win Mag!! So, I asked my friend about the bullets and he forgot to tell me they are teflon coated, they passed right through. Followed the blood trail for an hour and a half...no deer and the rain continued. Field loads Tuesday.

i myself went hunting the past few weeks (i use a WSM270 myself) and if you use a FMJ (full metal jacket) bullet... it wont expand on contact.. so your exit wound is just as small as the entrance wound... on a non FMJ... the entrance wound is about the size of a pencil or so, but the exit wound can be as big as a silver dollar and/or larger... the reason we use FMJ in war is because if we only injure enemy combatants, it takes 2 more off the firefight to carry the wounded off... thus having 3 less sources of bullets... and using FMJ for hunting.. well, i dont think that 2 more deer will run out and start haulin the injured to the nearest infirmary... if you dont hit a heart/lung, you rely on the exit wound to cause as much blood loss as possible as quickly as possible, so you dont have to track it 2+ miles

**Tonk** · 12-03-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdz

Which I also like when they bleed freely as well, I also think the meat taste better when it is bled out really good.

i agree in the fact that any meat tastes better when thoroughly drained of blood, which is why we hang our deer for 1 day or so after registering them before we bring them to get processed at the butcher

11-27-2007, 10:42 AM	#16 (permalink)
Long Bow Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 30 Posts: 1,314	Re: Deer Season Thats too bad, it would have been better to miss all together. Good luck with the rest of the season. This is a website that shows, through some rather crude tests, the effects of different bullets on different materials, interesting stuff. www.theboxotruth.com Enjoy. __________________

11-27-2007, 07:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
cfss Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vancouver Age: 27 Posts: 97	Re: Deer Season Where in the US was this? just curious

11-30-2007, 02:25 AM	#20 (permalink)
submit7 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 36	Re: Deer Season If they were the 190 sierra boat tail match rounds, and not a specific hunting round, then they were not designed to expand in the animal. That's why you got the pass through...always use a bullet designed to expand. I am pretty sure those bullets are "technically" hollow point but not the kind designed to expand. The little hollow in the end of the bullet is part of the manufacturing process. Don't get me wrong, if a human were hit with that it would be lights out...but animals tend to be harder to put down than people and so you really need the maximum permanent wound channel like a true expanding point bullet gives you. I have heard MANY stories of hunters using FMJs on game and the animal just runs away. Good luck next time. I am going to dust off the old A-bolt and hit the woods this week myself. __________________ submit7

11-30-2007, 12:41 PM	#21 (permalink)
DoorGunner53E Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 132	Re: Deer Season Yeah, I was mistaken the "Hollowpoint" aspect. He just said, "Hey, try these"! No more "Sniper / NATO" rounds on the elusive Deer. Should have just tried the headshot, I had time...

12-03-2007, 07:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
msdz Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: WV Age: 36 Posts: 778	Re: Deer Season OK, this is my personal opinion on the .300 Win. Mag., to much gun for whitetail deer. Here in WV very few people I know have anything over a .30-06. Reason why is mainly due to the fact you really can't get to many good open long shots at a deer with all the hills and brush in the woods. I have had a 7mm mag. and shot quite a few deer with it and found out anything at a relatively short distance to the gun I had to chase deer all over the hillsides and down in valleys before I found and was able to drag them out(they always die where no man should ever set foot and hope you don't break your neck when climbing back over the tallest mountain on Earth, no chance of ATV or anything else going down and getting back out). What I ended up doing before selling it was I waited for the best possible shot and when the deer was not moving then I would go straight for the head shot. Only way I could drop them instantly and not chase them all over the countryside. Talked to many other hunters also and they told me that it was just to much gun and had nothing to do with bullet weight cause most shots are less than 75 yards around this part of the country. With the bullets speed and regardless of it's weight it was passing through the deer and not giving it that shocking blow that would normally drop them fairly quick. Well, I took these old hunters advice and sold the 7mm mag. and went out and bought a 30-30 and seen tremendous differences in how a deer would drop at about the same distance of 75 yards compared to the 7mm. mag. or even the 300 Win. mag. I borrowed one time from my step-dad. Still using Teflon coated bullets was not needed. My opinion on a bullet like that would be mainly for a kill that would be less messy. Small entrance hole and small exit hole, I would want the small hole going in but a huge one coming out so the deer bleeds real quick and easy flowing, that way if they do run they are easier to track and hopefully drop over from blood loss. Which I also like when they bleed freely as well, I also think the meat taste better when it is bled out really good. The bullets you used just plain and simple were not for hunting, no expansion from a bullet such as that. If anything the bullet might have done good at a very long distance when the bullet was just starting to lose it energy, then it may have had more knock down effect to it. I still love muzzle loader hunting the best. I feel like great-great grandpa in the frontier days when hunting with them and that the deer actually has a better chance due to misfires from the cap not igniting and the smell, nothing beats the smell of any gun going off. You can just smell the power...arghh...arghh...arghh. Oops Tim Allen jumped in the head the mention of power. Oh, the benefit of Teflon coated bullets is it actually helps with weight retention so the bullet does lose it shape when coming out of the barrel. Some bullets actually get a flattened our or even a bubble look at high speeds just after exiting a barrel, or so I have read I don't know for a fact. Another thing is I read was Teflon coated bullets would be used on targets that may be intended for a wound but not a kill, creating less damage to the victim if let's say they would want to take them down and then ask questions later. Just some things I had read about some uses of a Teflon bullet, most varmint hunters prefer to use Teflon coated bullets for the accuracy these bullets supposedly have. __________________

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