Grieg

It really would be helpful to get more information.

a) What dimensions are the room this will be going in?
b) Is it carpeted / hard flooring?
c) Is there a basement under the room you will be putting this in?
d) Sitting in your normal watching positions, do you have room behind you or is there a wall?
e) What type of walls? (Brick/concrete, drywall, or plaster?)
f) Do you want wall mounted, in-wall, tower, or bookshelf speakers? (What size speaker can your ideal setup accommodate?)
g) Do you wish to expand this system into other rooms?

Those would be my standard initial questions before designing a system. Knowing how the sound will play off the walls and floor is a big deal. Also, knowing how I am going to wire my rear speakers is big too. (Wire run under the carpet, through the floor in the basement ceiling, etc..) Having an idea of what size speakers you can accommodate is also a good thing, because if they take up too much room and you can not place them properly, your system's performance will be affected.

After that, I would set a budget. There is more to a surround sound system than a receiver and speakers. Knowing how much you want to spend will certainly dictate what equipment choices you have. Budget about 10 to 20% of your purchase toward cables and accessories. Quality cables are important, please don't believe otherwise. Large sound improvements can be heard from identical speakers hooked to identical receivers just by using better quality speaker cable. (If the speaker cable is thin enough to floss your teeth, its bad cable.)

Know the technology... or at least the basics. If you don't know the difference between a digital coaxial cable and a HMDI cable, go learn!! When shopping for this stuff, having a basic idea of what it is you are buying will save you tons of grief.

Plan the placement of the equipment before you buy it. Having measurements on how much speaker cable you will need, what size speakers will fit next to the TV and behind you, and where you are going to put this giant receiver is ESSENTIAL!

Keep in mind your goal for this system when shopping. Let's say you want this system to be unobtrusive in size, but sound really good, can expand toward future technology / usage, and will last you a long time. That pretty much rules out what we call Home Theaters in a Box, especially the low to mid-end ones. It also means you shouldn't be eye-balling the 5' tall tower speakers that the salesman is trying to push on you... it should be unobtrusive, remember? That is just an example, I prefer tower speakers personally. They always sound better than bookshelf / mini-speakers.

Unless you are talking about a TV or Blue-Ray player, SONY equipment sucks. I'm so serious about this its not funny. Especially their receivers / speakers, and most especially their home theaters in a box. (Just my personal opinion formed from years of dealing with this stuff.)

Every part in the system is as important as the other. Yes, a receiver is the core of the system... the most intelligent part if you will. But if you get a very powerful receiver and match it with crappy speakers, you're still buying a bad system.

Ok... so, there you have it. That is my purchasing advice for home theaters.


Now, on to technology.

Receivers -

http://www.usa.denon.com/
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/avreceivers.html?CTID=5000200
http://www.onkyousa.com/prod_class.cfm?class=Receiver
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...t/AV-Receivers
http://www.harmankardon.com/

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Auto-Adjusting Receivers -- Many receivers now have the ability to adapt their output to the acoustics of your room. Hardwood floors, brick or concrete walls will reflect sound like mad, and can generally degrade the performance of your system. Also, odd speaker placements will make primary and surround effects reach your ears out of time from the movie, further degrading your experience. Since no room in a house is a perfect sound room (like a recording studio), having a receiver which can help adjust for this is very nice.

I'm a personal fan of Denon receivers, but have owned / sold Yamaha and Pioneer ones as well. If you see the terms "Audyssey" or "YPAO" on these receivers, it means that it has some ability to listen to your room and adjust accordingly. (It does this through a microphone which typically comes with the receiver.) This can help your system sound great.
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Multi-room vs Multi-source -- Most receivers are going to be 7.1 receivers now, and of those there are some which will allow you to power a full 5.1 speaker system while outputting / powering another stereo pair of speakers in another room... at the same time. Denon does this very well, and usually incorporates an RF remote to control the other room. The key thing to know when buying the system is: Will it power the other speakers, or will it just pass a low level signal to another amplifier to accomplish this. (Which is the difference between Multi-room and source.)
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Receiver power -- Watts. You're going to see the term all over receiver specs. A home theater in a box may advertise itself as a 1200 watt system.
Take for example, this one: http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelI...thId=30&page=1
Now, lets compare that to this Denon receiver:
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3635.asp

Wait a second... the JVC system is more powerful and costs less? AND it comes with speakers?! Let us apply some common sense here. No, the JVC is not more powerful. They are advertising total system power. It is kind of like this: Total System Power = The absolute total wattage consumed by the entire system right before it explodes in a fiery ball of OMGWTFPWNAGE at max volume or electricity consumption. Its average output is much less than its peak power.

The Denon receiver dedicates a constant and very precise 85watts of power, using discrete circuitry, to each speaker output. Infact, this rating is often conservative, as the receiver can put more than 85watts through a single channel if needed.

So... the lesson here: Don't be fooled by companies throwing the term Watts in your face. It is often misleading.
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Final thoughts on receivers -- All in all, as I stated, I think Denon currently has the best receivers on the market for performance, quality, and price. They are easy to use, their remote controls are well designed (important ergonomics feature there) and sound very good.

Yamaha produces very good receivers as well, and often have a lot of flashy features. Some of which are quite appealing. Their DSP effects and technology are very nice and can help you customize your sound in ways other receivers can't. I feel that this can be a negative though, as I wouldn't want my receiver to distort my music / movies to sound like I was in the Vienna Concert Hall, or a Jazz Club, etc. Its great for some, but not myself. All in all, I'd say Yamaha is my 2nd favorite receiver manufacturer.

Poineer / Onkyo -- Good products, especially the higher up their line you go. The problem here is that their mid to lower end products haven't typically competed well in the market place, and I've found they usually aren't as good as ones by Denon or Yamaha. Good receivers, and they often are better than something else with any other name. They are also much better than a home theater in a box system.

Harmon Kardon -- Better than SONY, but your money would probably be best spent elsewhere. Also hard to find, I've found. Used to be an excellent receiver company.

SONY. Ok... I'll admit, they do have one good receiver line - the ES. The rest of it is utter crap in my experience. If you are hell-bent on SONY, here is the link:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=27925


Speakers -
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Ok, as I said before, if you get a great receiver and match it with crappy speakers, you are still going to end up with a crappy system. Speakers produce the sound you hear, not the receiver! That being said, the best advice anyone can give you about selecting speakers would be this: Pick the one that sounds best to you.
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Quick overview / speaker basics:

About sound:
The human ear can hear from 20 to 20k hertz. Thats if you are under 10 years of age, never heard a sound over 60 decibels, and otherwise have perfectly undamaged hearing. The rest of the population can't actually hear that entire range, or certain parts of that range. So, what I hear isn't exactly what you hear. Either way, having a system that can produce sounds in that frequency range is important. Your speakers will determine if your system can do this.

About speakers:
A "driver" is the cone shaped device which produces the sound. A single driver, or multiple drivers can comprise a single speaker. If you see a speaker with 3 cones, or drivers, each one of them is not a 'speaker', the entire thing is the speaker. I hope that made sense.

The lower the frequency of sound, the BIGGER the driver needs to be to reproduce it. That is why subwoofers are often very big. Very high frequency sound is produced better by smaller speakers, often called tweeters. Mid range sound is best produced by a mid-sized speaker. Keeping this in mind, if you buy a speaker that only has a 2 inch wide driver... it is not going to produce bass or mid range sound very well. Keep that in mind when taking a look at those ultra tiny satellite speakers you'll see all over the place. In other words, accurate sound reproduction will best be achieved by a speaker that has at least a 4" driver and separate tweeter, depending on speaker technology and manufacturer.

Here are some recommendations for speakers:

Infinity / Polk. What I call the starting point for buying speakers. Typically, they won't sound better than other manufacturers, but the price vs performance is very nice. Beta series by Infinity is a good solid choice. The Cascade series sounds very good. http://www.infinitysystems.com/

Klipsch - Funny name, I know. Company founded by Paul Klipsch, a gentleman able to hear beyond the 20-20k range. Very rare trait in humans. Anyway... These speakers typically use horns instead of tweeters, and will be able to produce very crisp highs and accurate mids. Team them with the right kind of subwoofer (one with a lot of oomph) and you've got a great sounding system. These speakers typically require less power (or wattage) than their competitors, which means you might get away with stepping down a notch in your receiver selection. http://www.klipsch.com/products/speakers.aspx

Definitive Technologies - Their bi-polar design sounds amazing. They are more expensive than previously mentioned speakers, but well worth it. Their super-towers each have a subwoofer built in. You'd have to hear it to believe it.

KEF - Some of the best sound I've ever heard come from a speaker. Very wide sound dispersion. Very accurate sound reproduction. If you can afford it - get it. Info about this product can be found here: http://www.kef.com/products/referenc...l/default.aspx
(The 205 series ran through a Telarc recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture with real cannons firing like it was nothing. This recording will literally destroy lesser speakers at high volume, and has a warning label to prove it!)

B&W - Probably the best speakers made. A speaker made of diamond? Yes please! Just read about it, and you'll see why: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=766

Ok, there are tons more I could go through, but those are my favorites (and the ones I have the most experience with). Also, I've spent way too much time in this reply. I need to sleep.

Btw, I've managed a store for the 3rd largest consumer electronics retail chain in Colorado (and arguably the western half of the US). I've spent a long time in the industry in that position, and more selling in it. I'm also a closet audiophile, and really enjoy this stuff. I hope all this helps.

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Grieg

Oh, and this can help too: http://www.hometheatermag.com/buyersguides/

When you go to buy receivers or speakers, bring along some CDs or DVDs that have excellent sound to them. Ask to listen to the product using that. You're familliar with the music on the CD, see which speaker sounds good playing it. MP3 on CD (or anything involving MP3, or had been converted to MP3) is not something you want to test a system with. Compressed audio = bad, mmm k?

Master and Commander (with Russel Crow) has an extraordinary surround soundtrack, and can really punish some systems. Look for the cannon scenes.

Bring an assortment of music. Hip-hop, rock, jazz, etc... all are recorded to accent different frequencies of sound. So bring along a little of everything if you can. (Major retailers like Best Buy probably won't let you through the door with a bunch of discs, and if they do, check them in at the front so they know you're not stealing stuff.)

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CingularDuality

Negative. Your left and right front speakers are absolutely your most important speakers! When listening to music in stereo, your center channel and surrounds will be unused. Stereo music is also where you're going to want the highest fidelity.

Great post and good point on the speaker cables. There are some WAAAAY overhyped products out there, though. Monster Cable makes some nice stuff, but you can get some fantastic 12 guage speaker cable from Radio Shack that will sound EXACTLY the same as Monster's stuff for a tenth the price. Copper is copper, and if that copper is insulated correctly, nothing is going to make it better. Monster's marketing, and ignorant or unethical salesmen, would have you believe otherwise...

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beaker424

Wish I had seen this post about three weeks ago.

I just bought a Sony 5.1 system. It has individual components (not an all in one), but the quality leaves a lot to be desitred. I would not recommend it.

The major problem is that running all my compnents through the A/V receiver the HDMI out ports do not support audio. Who ever heard of that? I had to spend twice as much on cables to have an HDMI for video and another separate cable for audio for the TV, DVD, and satellite box.

WhiskeySix

Guess it depends on how you use your system. We mainly use our "surround sound" system for watching TV and movies. With kids, it's very rare that we put on some good music, and kick back on the couch to enjoy... almost never in fact... (I listen to music 8+hrs a day while I work )


On the other hand, there's TV playing several hours a day - a couple hrs of kids shows during the day and then a few hours of TV/movies at night.

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War.mongeR1

Do you want middle or high end? As was said before, Onkyo makes a great box set. I'm a big fan of their receivers. When it says it has 80w/channel, that is usually pretty accurate and can put out a lot of sound UNLIKE the all-in-one units that claim they have 1000w total.

I moved out of town last summer so I left my old setup with my friend to indefinitely borrow while I put together a new one. My old one is an old Technics 100x5.1 receiver. It's old but it has DTS and Dolby Digital and sounds great. I had big Cerwin-Vega towers for my FL and FR. A Yamaha center. Bose 301's for the rear. The Cerwin-Vega's ROCK. Never needed a sub with those bad boys. Too bad you just can't seem to find them anymore. That used to be my fav brand for the money. Way better than my Bose speakers.

The setup I'm buying next. Gonna have to put it together slowly. One bit at a time. I'm getting a Yamaha RX-V1800. Seems to be by far the most feature filled for the money. Has multiple zones and more importantly has the latest DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD audio formats. I heard it at a high-end store and it sounds amazing. Cost is $1299.95 retail.
Speaker's I'm going with are Bowers-Wilkins (B&W). I LOVE LOVE LOVE their speakers. Haven't picked a pair yet, but trust me, just 2 small front speakers by them put out more sound and clarity than just about any thing you could possibly buy at Best Buy. These are ONLY sold at home theater stores (Best Buy/Circuit City need not apply). There's a small set of bookshell speakers (LM-1) they make that are only about $300 for the pair, but they sound great. I'm gonna use them for fronts just to start but move them to the rear when I buy my towers. Their towers seem to be about $1500+ each for the ones I really want. Go to a store and check these out. All this gear seems like a lot of money, but I'm probably gonna use these speakers for a lifetime, and be VERY satisfied.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...1&CTID=5000300
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/

As Cing said earlier, surround sound is one thing, but listening to 2 channel stereo needs good front left and right speakers (why I like towers). Listening to a cd on a high-end stereo system out of 2 good speakers is divine.

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

El_Gringo_Grande

Buy what you think sounds good. All the specs and numbers mean absolutely nothing if it sounds poorly to you. And everybody has a different idea of what sounds good. Some actually like muddy bass. And there are those who simply have a tin ear and couldn't tell the difference between "good" and "bad" sound if their life depended on it. And some like the sound of BOSE. I don't like the sound of BOSE systems.

Another thing to consider is that what sounds good in one place can sound horrible in another. Some rooms simply cannot produce good sound unless you do a lot of modification to them. Curtains, carpets, sound panels, re-arranging furniture or even removing furniture from the room. If you are not willing to go to that kind of trouble why shell out big bucks?

I have a Sony all in one system. But it is in a 16'x13' room with hardwood floors, right next to the kitchen with a huge window on one side and a large opening to the rest of the house on the other. A $10,000 system wouldn't sound good in that room.

I suggest you go to a store that gives you the ability to listen to the products in a listening room and has a generous return policy. Buy the one that sounds the best then take it home and see if it still sounds good. If it doesn't return it and take the next one that sounds good.

I have read good reviews of Panasonic, Onkyo and Yamaha systems. A Friend has a Panasonic that sounds pretty darn good and it has wireless rear speakers. A big plus for setting it up in an optimal way. And correct speaker positioning is almost as important as the component.

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War.mongeR1

It's funny you mention this. My old neighbor wanted help setting up his surround sound system, which we did. He bought a good receiver with ok speakers. He didn't have a DVD player that had DTS, though. He wanted to know what the big deal about DTS was, so I showed him Master & Commander at my house with my old Cerwin-Vega towers and Bose rears. I had the walls rattling at only 20% volume. It's amazing hearing cannon balls screaming by your head. He was blown away. He then bought a new player that had DTS. Still though, his Sony all-in-one theater system didn't compare to my setup (which was only middle of the road if even that). That particular movie is a great torture test for a setup. Bring that dvd to an electronics store and see how their components hang with it.

PERFECT recommendation, Grieg!

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

WhiskeySix

yeah DTS ES with Master and Commander is stunning... The open of saving private ryan used to be what I used to show people what surround sound really is, but now, the opening scene to M&C is my go-to... it opens in deep in the bowels of the creaky black ship, with a guy slowly making their way forward towards the stairs... the ambient sounds are just ridiculous - sounds like you're IN an 18th century ship (It's also nice because you can play this part while the kids are sleeping )


I'm running a Denon 2805 receiver... plenty of power for my small living room, has HDMI switching (for HD DVR and PC), and has a pretty clean sound.

I've slowly (as I can afford it) been building out with B&W speakers... HIGHLY recommended, but a little hard to find. I started with the LCR60 center speaker:


A few months later I upgraded my L/R's to DM601's:


Just recently I added the matching 8" sub.. ASW300:



As I said, as I upgraded the front speakers, I demoted the old front speakers towards the back of the room. My old L/R's (little bookshelf jobs) are hanging high on the wall as surrounds, and my old Dipole surrounds are on the back wall for the rear channels.for my

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War.mongeR1

Whiskey, your setup almost made me soil myself. Nice equipment!

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

WhiskeySix

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that....


It's been slow going... I started with the receiver - got a 50%-off deal (!!) on the receiver as part of subcontracting with Denon (I used to work for ADI which supplied the DSP chips that do all the surround decoding/processing)... Then I've basically been throwing a few hundred bucks a year at it.

You can still get some crazy deals on B&W stuff on ebay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search...fsoo%3D1&fgtp=

It's especially nice if you're going with bookshelf speakers, because people often buy those and then upgrade to tallboys... So you can get them in like-new condition.

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WhiskeySix

pretty good deal right now on a Klipsh set of speakers: http://www.woot.com/

Regularly $799, on woot-sale for $449:

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War.mongeR1

That's a pretty sweet deal! They're not B&W like I really want, but those Klipsch speakers are no slouch. I guess someone from Ebay's been copying and pasting Woot's product description. That's hilarious that woot caught on and made that part of their new description. Honestly. How in the world could think you'd get away with copying woot's descriptions when they're as unique and hilarious as they are? Thanks for the post, Whiskey.

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

WhiskeySix

Available again today for 20 bucks less: $429 www.woot.com

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War.mongeR1

My buddy just got those, and they do sound fantastic. I'd highly recommend these if you're not planning on spending over $1000 on speakers. You can't beat $429!

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire