Re: C&C 4 Tiberium, anyone

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 04-28-2008, 08:56 PM

My main problems with C&C3 was that it is an old school RTS. I have the same complaints against Starcraft 2. More so for SC2 because I expect alot from Blizzard.

It's not even just it being an old school RTS. The game is a spam fest. Well it used to be, I find it alot better now in that regard.

**Uranium - 235** · 04-29-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by RGM-79N_GM_CUstom

Starcraft 2 deserves a big meh.

^ ^ ^

Honestly unless you're a Korean or a hardcore micro-obsessed tournament player, I don't see anything in Starcraft 2 that looks even remotely exciting, new, or original.

Actually I'm surprised you even excepted anything from Blizzard - the original Starcraft really was nothing innovative at all either. It was beaten out by a year by Total Annihilation which was quite literally released years before its time. Starcraft didn't 'define' RTS games, it didn't do anything new except have scripted triggers in the maps, and even that was underutilized during the campaign, 99% of the missions were just "You vs. big enemy base - blow it up". In fact, World of Warcraft, Warcraft 3, Starcraft, Diablo - Blizzard really doesn't actually make anything creative at all. They can make well-polished games, sure, but I'd rather have a slightly unpolished, new game than a really good game I played a decade ago. (And yes, Starcraft was just a big huge rip-off of Warhammer 40k, and Starcraft 2 looks like a big huge rip-off of Dawn of War).

Despite Starcraft's success, I honestly can't name a single thing it did to set any sort of standards for the RTS genre.

**Thesleeper01** · 04-29-2008, 04:44 PM

Personaly I was never reaily as intersted in the Tibirum story line, I find the red alert story line/games a lot more fun thought I got pumped for CNC3 tibirum wars because it was the only offering in a long time but since the anouncement of red alert 3 I am pumped again but for a game I reaily want this time.

**Uranium - 235** · 04-29-2008, 04:52 PM

I think the storyline becomes meaningless when the main villain has been:

- Disintegrated with a laser from space.
- Crushed under a massive building.
- Exploded in an explosion of explosively epic proportions (like, seriously, it was the size of Europe).

Yet KEEPS COMING BACK... I think it's safe to say that the story stopped taking itself seriously long ago...

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 04-29-2008, 05:15 PM

Not completely. Him coming back is part of the story. He may actually be Cain. (the one that killed his brother Abel) Atleast everything hints at that.

I don't think SC2 is a rip off of DOW1. It's just SC1 with 3D graphics and as many new units as possible to avoid being called SC1 with 3D graphics. SC is a very large scale game while DOW is small scale battles.

I only look forward to SC2 from a story line and custom map POV.

**Uranium - 235** · 04-29-2008, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by RGM-79N_GM_CUstom

SC is a very large scale game while DOW is small scale battles.

I don't think you're wrong in that DOW was a more tactical (small-scale) game, but to imply that Starcraft was instead more 'strategic' and therefore 'larger' is a fallacy, at best.

Dawn of War had plenty of enormous-sized maps, and units to fill the gaps on these as well. I really don't see at all how you figure Starcraft had any strategy behind it at all. Starcraft was really just about as small as DOW. Just because you can spam a certain unit doesn't strategy make

Oh and RE: SC2 - Reaver Jump Marines? Whose model, behavior, weaponry, and even name mimic DOW? C'mon now...

**Lorax74** · 04-29-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by RedForman

I haven't played C&C games since Red Alert (the first one). I really gotta backtrack and play some of em someday....apparently I have a lot of catching up to do though...

I haven't played C&C since C&C, the real first one

.

I loved that game, wasn't crazy about Red Alert and couldn't get into Tiberian Sun for some reason or another.

**Uranium - 235** · 04-30-2008, 01:53 AM

It's interesting to compare old C&C to new C&C, you really see how 'dumb' games have become.

Old C&C was about small numbers of units, and many campaign missions involved you with two rocket troops, a commando, and an engineer, and you had to blow up something or another.

New C&C is regular, boring old unit spam and fast-paced twitchyness.

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 04-30-2008, 02:13 AM

^^^That is just nostalgia. There are some "commando" missions in Tiberium Wars. I just finished one on the Nod side. Not as much as in C&C Tiberium Dawn but I believe that has more to do with people love affair with base building in RTS games.

There was probably 2 construction mission for every commando mission.

**Uranium - 235** · 04-30-2008, 06:58 AM

The commando missions in the current C&C games are far more forgiving than they were

It's not really a commando mission when you're given a super-charged mech marine armed with a heavy repeating nuclear-powered railgun, and the enemy just sends legions of basic riflemen at you

The ones I was talking about, not sure if you remember them, would have heavy tanks and anti-infantry buggies you'd have to deal with with your little troupe of dudes. They were extremely difficult, and required a lot of planning to execute.

If you want a better black-and-white look at the dumbing down of C&C, compare Red Alert to Red Alert 2. In fact a lot of the marketing leading up to it in previews and the like heavily emphasized the increased pace and the more reliance on 'micro'. Which makes RTS games suck.

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 04-30-2008, 05:01 PM

Actaully I will one up you on RA1 to RA2.

Rock Paper Sissors

RA2 is a RPS RTS game while RA1 wasn't. RA1 as two armies made with completely different strengths. The Allies ruled the high seas and must rely on sabatoge, intel, and disinformation to beat out the superior armor, infantry (debatable), and full blown air superiority of the Soviets.

Compare that to RA2 Soviet/Allied airpower is more equal. The Naval advantage is basically the Allied destroyer being more powerful then the Scorpion and typhoon subs. Also the Aegis hard countering the Soviet Dreadnought.

With that said my main concern is that RA3 will be a spam fest like early C&C3. Tiberium Wars is alot better now with all the patches. I just hope RA3 isn't a spamfest.

I also dislike how in RA2 they broke the continuity and made the game super cheesy. I really dislike the setting of RA3 from what I have read.

Oh for those that don't know Red Alert is a prequel to Tiberium Dawn.

**Uranium - 235** · 05-01-2008, 07:49 AM

I'll one up you on those

RA2 is an EA game. RA1 was a Westwood game.

EA doesn't really make anything that appeals to anyone except the 'mainstream'. The 'mainstream' wants instant gratification, Starcraft-clones, and zero learning curves.

If you're expecting RA3 to be a return to RA1... I hope you also aren't expecting Fallout 3 to be a return to Fallout 2 either

**RGM-79N_GM_CUstom** · 05-01-2008, 09:24 PM

^^I have no hope for both of those games. =P

However all I want bare minimum is Fallout 3 NOT being just Oblivion with guns. For RA3 I just want it to NOT be a spamfest like pre-patches Tiberium Wars.

**ikonic** · 05-03-2008, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by RGM-79N_GM_CUstom

Oh for those that don't know Red Alert is a prequel to Tiberium Dawn.

Kane lives!

[media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=vN2zeRbu0x4[/media]

**westyfield** · 05-03-2008, 08:23 AM

Aaaaah, you gotta love those cheesey cutscenes. Whenever I see one, I think 'Yup. This is definitely a C&C game.'

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