http://www.gas-price-relief.net/? - Page 3

caldsteven · 05-21-2008, 02:54 PM

Sorry, it's moved up to position 3 lol. its a link to this discussion =P

msdz · 05-24-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonk

ill throw my two cents in on this, and the 'fry oil' fuel as well...

my uncle was talking about making a hydrogen generator that would separate o2 and hydrogen from water, and the gases would go into the intake... this is what i think the site is talking about.... he is thinking about doing it, and it can be done with any internal combustion motor ( gas, diesel, e85... ect) and imho, it would work... altho i dont know how well

as for fry oil powering diesel, a good friend of mine and her father and brother got into the grease powered diesel industry about 5 years ago.. as it was just getting big, they started by first mixing grease and diesel (called greasle) but they came across problems with it being too thick to burn, the system they use now is awesome.. they have 3 diesel jettas, and 2 ford 6.0l diesels, 1 7.3l ford diesel 1 dodge cummings diesel and 2 old diesel VW trucks(i havent seen the trucks yet) they collect used grease from grease dumpsters around the area(this is the hard part because you have to have permission from both the owner of the restauraunt and have to notify the grease pickup company that they dont need to pickup weekly) they then put the grease in a centerfuge and spin the food debris away from the grease, it then gets filtered three times (this whole process is done while the grease is at 150F) this system is perfected for them.... their total cost per gallon is just under .7c per gallon... it costs about 22c per DAY for electricity for the pumps and fuel to heat the oil during the purification process... the vehicle must also be modified ($1700 for the 1.9 jetta, $2200 for 99+ ford 7.3 and 6.0 ). that cost includes a grease tank (it goes in the spare tire area of the jetta and in the bed of the trucks of the fords and dodge, and a computer that meters the temp of the grease ... the vehicles start on diesel, and the exhaust heats the grease tank to 150 (the temp where the grease becomes liquid again) and performance and mileage are IDENTICAL to running on diesel.... exhaust smells like french frys, but oh well... for .7c a gallon, i wont complain... the jettas can go about 1700 miles on one tank of diesel (since it is only used for about 2 minutes) and 45 miles per gallon of grease thereafter, the trucks go about 2200 miles per diesel fillup, and 17-22 miles per gallon of grease thereafter... this is a really good system if you drive a diesel vehical... time is the only downside of this, 4-6 hours a week of collecting and another 12 hours to process the grease per week is enough to fuel every vehicle with the conversion(the processing doesnt have to be attended to continuously), and room to spare... they currently have about 2000gal of processed grease in storage and they are looking to find people to do the conversion and sell grease to them at half the cost of diesel (currently $4.55 around here)

A lot of diesel engines can run on straight veggie oil with no issues, mine will but I do have to start with diesel and then after engine is warm switch over to the veggie oil and before shutting down I need to switch back to the diesel to clean the veggie oil fromt he injectors so they do not clog up BUT if actually converting to biodiesel this does not need to be done. The fat that is in the oils is removed when processing the veggie oil(or animal oils such as lard) and is thinner so it does not need to be warmed up to spray through the injectors properly. Also, after mixing the veggie oil, lye, and methynol the glycerin that comes from the oil can then be used for other uses such as fertilizer or even explosives, lol. Also the biodiesel needs washing to get the soap out of it, which I read a lot of people make their own home made soaps from that. You add water to the bioddiesel and then gently wash it then drain the water from it(water being heavier settles to the bottom for easy draining), then the water is left to evaporate leaving the soap behind.
150* is also high compared to what I read on a lot of different sites, most say anywhere between 130* and 150* with 140* being about the average and best. Main reason for heating isn't cause it is thick, it is to help evaporate the water from the oil if using used oil(of course the higher the heat the faster the evaporation goes), new oil doesn't have to be heated at all cause it SHOULD not have any water in it at all. If any heat is needed then the lye and methynol mixed and added will cause a slight heat increase, still most sites do recommend slight heating to at least 130* even with new oil to help the reaction take place faster.
Also, biodiesel is cleaner and can be mixed or used by itself, only main conversion most people need to consider is changing the fuel lines to steel or synthetic fuel lines cause the biodiesel in a sense is a cleaning solvent and will east away at rubber. It will also remove any dirt and build up regular fossil diesel leaves behind that may already be in the fuel system. So for the first few tanks run through a vehicle they recommend having extra fuel filters on hand and be prepared to change the fuekl filters by having the right tools available at that time they get clogged.

Very good site for learning about biofuels, including the ethanol for running in the average gasoline engine. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

**KillDaddy** · 05-24-2008, 06:58 PM

I try to always buy gas at my local Exxon. It's about 3-5 cents more expensive than the other places around here, but I have NEVER had any chugging or knocking after buying it from them. My gas mileage seems to get better too. Something to do with their additives.

I have a display built in to my dash that shows the average gas mileage. Just for kicks and giggles, I did a test resetting it after filling up at the local Kum & Go (a gas station, not a sperm bank), a Shell and then the Exxon.

Results after 3/4ths of a tank with the same amount of driving to the same places (college/grocery store/etc.) were an average of 19.5 at the Kum & Go and Shell and 19.9 with Exxon.

Small difference and traffic flow and the heaviness of my foot might have had something to do with it, but that tank from Exxon always seems to last me longer.

ScratchMonkey · 05-25-2008, 12:07 AM

I just heard on the radio this week that there's been a wave of used fryer oil "theft" locally. There's a company that collects used oil for free, and the collection drums have been lighter than expected, suggesting that someone's been siphoning the oil.

Seems like before long, you'll have to pay restaurants for their used oil.

msdz · 05-25-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey

I just heard on the radio this week that there's been a wave of used fryer oil "theft" locally. There's a company that collects used oil for free, and the collection drums have been lighter than expected, suggesting that someone's been siphoning the oil.

Seems like before long, you'll have to pay restaurants for their used oil.

It is common courtesy to pay the resturants some money. Not much but it is a way for most people who want to get very cheap fryer oil. Most resturants have to pay to have these companies come around to collect the used oil anyway. So some think if they can get rid of it for free or even get a few pennies out of it that is the best way to go. Only thing is they usually need to prove where their used oil is going so as not to get accused of throwing it out with their trash or dumping it down a storm drain. Where I live there is only a couple of resturants and they are already spoken for or need to send it back to the original supplier.
I figure it would still be cheaper for me to go to a bulk grocery store and buy new than buy diesel from a gas station. I don't use very much in a weeks time anyway so do not need much, about 10 gallons of oil would be the very most for me with 5 gallons being about average and most of that is idle time while waiting to drop the kids off at the bus stop. I live in the middle of town and don't go out much and when I do I can walk most of the time.

ScratchMonkey · 05-25-2008, 04:12 PM

I recall the news story also mentioning needing "dangerous chemicals" (explosive?) to process the oil, implying that your neighbor was gonna blow up the neighborhood. More FUD to protect incumbents, I presume.

Birdman1011395 · 05-26-2008, 02:23 AM

If they're talking about Biodiesel production then yes, the chemicals used to make it are dangerous. Methanol is rather nasty in that is highly flammable and can cause blindness, and can be absorbed by the skin. Lye can cause both chemical and heat-based burns.

And if we're talking about WVO, well the fuel itself is "dangerous". I do not know how it is, but I know that the restaurants are not allowed to dump and must have it picked up and processed. I want to say EPA regulations but am not certain.

msdz · 05-26-2008, 12:21 PM

The oil itself is not really dangerous besides at high temperatures being flammable. The methanol is extremely explosive, I read in one article somewhere that most states do not allow the average household to have more than half a gallon at a time legally(not sure about that though). I have friends that drill oil wells and told me anytime I need the methanol to give them a yell and they can bring in 55 gallon drums filled for FREE. I thought to myself what an explosion that would be!!! As with any thing caution is highly recommended when working with the lye and methanol. Also, there are quite a few other reasons why restaurants can not dump their WVO, if it goes down a storm drain then it can end up in streams, rivers, or even the ocean and of course it floats as with regular oil and can cause wildlife to end up drowning and crap like that. Also, if by chance it went into a landfill imagine somebody walking by a throwing a cigarette down, it is a very good chance that with the natural methane gases coming from the decomposing garbage and the WVO being soaked in the ground and other garbage it could be a nice huge fire.
either way it is still a way to beat the cost at the pump for people that have diesel vehicles. If more people made their own bio diesel then maybe the cost of fossil diesel would go down. I seriously doubt it though, I say it would drive the price higher which means even running bio diesel you still may have the long trips that require you to still use fossil diesel from the pump at sometime. I know most trucks have dual tanks and can run a long distance on that but some may drive farther than those 2 tanks of bio diesel will last them. Are they supposed to haul their own little tanker behind them as well, lol.

ScratchMonkey · 05-26-2008, 04:04 PM

So what should those of us with counter-top deep fryers do with our used oil? Anyone want to come pick it up for free?

What about oil from pan-frying? Should I save it in a bucket for you?

msdz · 05-28-2008, 11:22 PM

I thought about that, lol. Most people usually just wash it down the drain and does the EPA know about it....NO. Even so, would they be able to monitor every single household... NO. But I also was reading where regular motor oil from engines can be converted into what is called black diesel. Not as good for the engine or environment as bio diesel but at least it isn't a total waste of used oil. I mean they claim used motor oil is recycled but why is no new motor oil ever states "Recycled" on the bottles or jugs?? So what really happens to the used motor oil?
maybe somebody should set up local recycling centers o they can except used cooking oils to be processed into bio diesel. That would make the oil companies all the madder. Of course they would retaliate by raising prices more. I still think the federal government needs to step in and put a stop to the rising cost but that will never happen cause most of the government is oil tycoons.

**CingularDuality** · 05-29-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdz

Most people usually just wash it down the drain...

Really? Are people that stupid? No wonder there are so many plumbers...

ScratchMonkey · 05-29-2008, 03:10 PM

Why call recycled oil "recycled", except for marketing purposes when selling to greens? From what I know, you just filter the crap out and maybe cook any water out and it's good as new. You could probably run it back through the cracker.

As a rule, when a company meets competition (like oil companies meeting biofuels), its price goes down, not up. Prices are set by consumers, not producers. The only thing that makes prices go up is more consumers bidding. Competition reduces the number of customers bidding (because they're going to the cheaper competition).

**Uranium - 235** · 05-29-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey

So what should those of us with counter-top deep fryers do with our used oil? Anyone want to come pick it up for free?

Reuse it.

msdz · 05-29-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Really? Are people that stupid? No wonder there are so many plumbers...

Yeah a lot of people are that stupid. They figure a little bit isn't going to hurt as long as it goes down with hot water and a little Dawn dish detergent. The little town I live in actually had a warning on the radio not that long ago to recycle their used cooking oil cause the local sewage plant is having a hard time dealing with all the cooking oils that come into it. More chemicals are needed to break it down with a lot of cooking oils in the sewage apparently and the town is griping about the money involved for buying more chemicals. Also the sewage pipes are building up with the crud from it as well which means the city pays the sewage employs more for cleanign the sewage pipe. Kind of funny if you think about it and I can't find a place to get used oil at all. Every single place already has somebody laying claims to it. Maybe I can go to the local sewage plant and get them to rake it off the sewage, lol.

ikonic · 05-29-2008, 11:19 PM

I will continue to fill'er up with Premium...since I have to.

Ferris, try riding a motorcycle in a snowstorm and tell me how that works out, it won't work for me, for sure.