Hambergler

I disagree, This game cannot be played slow except for a couple vehicle based maps. The objectives are too close together and there is usually only one or two narrow corridors to get to the next one. The organized scrims went much faster then regular server play.

OK again, the maps design makes it extremely difficult to bypass an objective or come at it from and abstract direction. This is the main reason I quit playing. So a COs order is going to be the same on every map and every CO. Because of what I described this has lead to people taking the job less seriously and just assuming everyone knows the objective. There is room for a small improvement here, but not by much.

I remember that thread. Lots of recon bashing, but most of the bashing was done by rocket whores who cared only about their K/D ratios. I played enggy most of the time and frequently started my own squad because SLs wanted all rockets. I'm glad there wasn't an enggy bashing party.

I'm with you, but that is game mechanics, are you suggesting people not use rockets at snipers?

The way EA set up the server system I believe we were very limited on how the server could be manipulated. There are many changes to the server I would have liked to have seen.

Agreed, but how are you going to implement the primer in a game of pong? Which is where BFxx has been headed.

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Xen

See, there were plenty of maps that offered air transport, which if used properly could deliver squad after squad to remote locations. This could be used to ensure that the enemy kept their rear bases defended. Because they never knew from where the enemy might come from. I used this alot the few times I CO'ed and usually won. Because, I used the fact that everyone got so programed to run to the middle of the map and fight there for tickets. They would always have to turn around and go back to recapture bases that they never defended at the beginning.

See, when no one is using tactics, it ends up like this. There are many ways to look at it. Admins kept some of the maps small on purpose, because, IMO, they were promoting the fast gameplay that you saw on the pub servers. I know some maps they used had larger play areas which would have promoted different tactics and would have given recon and more mixed squads the ability to be more useful. They wanted tight CQC, with the rocket spamming, so the kill count would determine the winner rather then the timer. Like I said, that is how I saw it, from my perspective.

Not at all, but look at diversifying the game, by mixing the squads up. I never understood how having 3 assualts with a recon an engy and a support, was bad. You had someone that could watch and defend, someone to reload, and someone to deal with the armor all in one squad. This way, no matter what the squad encountered, they could atleast attempt to deal with it while re-inforcements were moved in to support them. Lone snipers are never effective, in any game. They need a squad to work with, to be truly effective.



By identifying the objectives of the game, which is to defend the your side of the playing field, then through tactics using fiegns and paddle manipulation to control the pong and score. Some may decide that moving up and down really really fast may be the best tactic, thinking that they have a better chance to intercept the pong. Others may sit perfectly still in the middle and use twitch reflexes to complet the objective. But remember, the Primer was writen for games with teams of 2 or more fighting over an objective. It's hard to apply the communication and teamwork aspect of the primer on a one on one situation.

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

Crux

We all try to play these games in a near simulation environment as intended by the game developers. What you are proposing is essentially that TG stop playing games except those that are hard-core sims or those that can be turned into hard-core sims.

2142 is not CoD4. CoD4 is not ArmA. ArmA is not Ghost Recon. Ghost Recon is not World of Warcraft.

If I wanted to play ARMA, I would play ArmA. Likewise if I wanted Ghost Recon I would play Ghost Recon. I don't try to change your environment in a game I have very little relative experience in. I appreciate the style of game that you choose to play in simulation. I don't know why you can't afford the members of the TG community who play DIFFERENT GAMES in a simulation style that same respect.

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Razcsak

TG has many different games, all of which involve different attitudes and playstyles. Each game isn't the same, nor do I like all the games played at TG. When that's the case, I go play something else. Why don't you play PR or CoD4 if that's where your tastes lie? I don't play WoW, for instance, and certainly wouldn't comment on how they run their games. Likewise, I don't play CoD4, so don't comment there. There's a difference between disliking the gameplay and commenting on what you don't approve of, and accusing everyone who plays the game of being "un-TG". One is a critique of the game and the other is insulting, demeaning, and shows a distinct lack of respect for the players of that game.

Zhohar

No, it can't.
The environment dictates the way the game is played. The equipment soliders are able to carry, the vehicles they are able to operate, the abilities these soldiers are able to perform, the type of physical environment, the size of conflict, the objectives of conflict, the measure of success in that conflict -- all these environmental factors are what determine the pace and the strategies employed in the said video game.

Gameplay in BF2142 is a Darwinian evolution of playstyles. The best ones come out on top.

You need to consult people who have experience in the game in question to understand what works and what doesn't in the environment provided. I say consult as you obviously have not played BF2142 long enough to pass any kind of judgment on it.

Play the game and learn why people do the things they do. Then come back and revisit your "argument."

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Razcsak

Well, it can, it just can't necessarily be played effectively. Other than that nitpick, you're essentially right. I could try playing PR identically to how I play 2142, but I'd run into a bit of a problem when what I did was woefully ineffective. Likewise, playing 2142 like PR would be...problematic at best. The best example of what you're talking about is the BF2->PoE2->PR continuum. Some people liked BF2's style, so they played it. Others wanted a more simulation-based game, so they changed that environment. Still others weren't satisfied, so you got a complete rework of the entire game, leading to PR. They changed the environment (both by starting in the BFx series initially, then through mods) to suit their preferred gameplay and then refined their tactics accordingly.

Uranium - 235

I think you're severely underestimating the amount of influence game design has on how you play it.

Compare Tribes 2 to Tribes 1. Tribes 2 was intentionally slower to be more strategic, and it shows. Sometimes, you can only slow a game down so much.

Gill

Must we always see recurrences of these hug-each-other, pat-on-the-back, reaffirm-each-other-that-we're-genuine-TG-material, compare-notes-on-TG-Primer threads every month (seems that way, at least)? The Primer doesn't take a doctorate in Literature to understand, so why the repeated dissection and analysis of "what it means"?

Just play the game. Don't act like a raging moron. Be nice to your fellow gamers. Listen to your chosen game's admins. Have a problem with said admins? PM them. Voila. TG membership par excellence.

Crux

Amen.

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Xen

Everyone hates me when I perform thread resurrections...

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

Xen

See this is where the problem lies, people assuming things about other people. I was here when the BF2 demo was started on the servers, I was there for the introduction of PoE and first incarnation of PR. I played 2142 the day it started TG and played for over a year. I enjoyed the games then because of how these games were played. Lost the internet for a time then came back. I quit once the gameplay became what it is today. I believe I have as much of a right to say there is a problem with these games as anyone who was there for the start of them on TG. Hoping to pass me off as someone that does not know, or understand, these games and there for not crediable, is sorely lacking.

If identifiying where I think problems lie is disrepectful, then so be it, as long as, one person walks aways from this atleast thinking about the topics discussed here and they are applying them in some small way on the TG servers.

Teamwork, communication, and objective based play, are not a hard concepts to follow. I think they can apply to any game. I have repeatedly though out this thread tried to bring something more then just a critique to the topic.

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

Xen

No where have I asked any games to be removed from TG, I'm asking the players to look at their play style and see if it's upto the Primer standard.

I really love everyone's assumption that because I don't play currently, I must be some frikkin noob. Get off your high horses and show me why your game should be looked at differently then any other game in light of the Primer. All I see is complaining cause I'm "Picking" on your game, and that I don't have enough experince to comment on your game. Even taking Acsh's post into account and lessening the near simulation rule, I still feel there could be improvements in the areas I pointed out in above posts and the Importance of Recon thread in 2142.

As it was stated earlier in the thread, the game developers did not make the games with TG in mind. The developers only intent is for the game to make shareholders money, they could care less on how someone chooses to play it. It's upto the players to go beyond what the developers intended and apply the primer. You should not be asking if your playing as the developers intended, you should be asking if your playing as the Primer dictates players should play on TG monitored servers.

Crux, you and I have gone around before about Recon, I was active in the BFx threads at the beginning. Anywhere from sharing ideas on map tactics to squad leading, I contributed to the BFx community plenty, yet where is the respect for those contributions to the community? No where, you think I'm ignorant of your games. Sorry to burst your bubble but, I was playing TG2142, well before you got to TG Crux. The game was released in '06. Think about it.

As for the gameplay differing between games, any way you "Skin" a FPS, it's still a FPS. Sure, because of neat gimmicks each game gives players lends istelf to different tactics used, in the end, even after using all the gimmicks, you are still left with a FPS. It should take only a small adjustment from one game to the next because the game mechanics are still fundementally the same. We mostly have FPS games here at TG, the MMO's where added because enough players of the FPS's also played them and wanted to apply the primer to how they played the MMO.

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

Quest Shady

CS:S has been brought up as an example a few times in this thread. I came to TG through the CS:S Server. As soon as I joined the server I was asked if I was new to the server and if I was, to read the rules.

This was back in the day of ROOT as the main admin and if you want a quick learning curve of TG then you can use Root as an example... I did not agree with him all the time nor did I like to be kicked by him at times for doing something that was either an accident or that just was "off" in my opinion. But I did learn to play TG very fast under him as well as respect him as an admin.

I also remember being instructed about the "Map Limits" on the server. This kept me in the boundaries until I saw other "TG" players that were outside of the boundaries and then I began to understand that the boundaries were used as guidelines. Now the boundaries come and go depending on how many new people are on the server and only as a tool to instruct. This is a learning curve that we all have to go through and once you learn and begin to understand what is trying to be enforced you can help teach others.

On CS:S we have had our growing pains over the years. It is a wave that comes and goes, old players disappear into other lives or other games and new players come on board and have to be taught the ropes...the ones that do not want to play by the rules no matter how many times you try and help have to be removed. Through it all, our core principals never change.

If you go through our forums you will see we have had our share of arguments and back and forth disagreements but through it all the core principals have been maintained and this is not just due to the outstanding work of the admins (Which they do, do a great job.) but it is due to every person playing on the server taking an active roll of helping out. As soon as a new person join you will have 3 or 4 people asking him if he has read the (MOTD/Rules).

It doesn't matter if the TG Player is SM, PCS or just a guy that loves TG. They take a part in helping to inform and teach new players. The admins can not do everything, they are a last resort if the new person that comes decides that no matter what he is here for a run n gun game....well then the admin must step in and "ENFORCE" the rules.

I am a PCS, CS:S player. I have only hopped on to a few other TG game servers and do not have the experience most of you do on those other games but I do know the core principals of TG can be brought into any game or game system...PC, PS3, XBOX 360 or Wii, it doesn't matter. But we all have to take an active part and not rely on the admins to do everything and whine when something goes wrong.

We have to make the efforts to teach the new players, to make new suggestions to help the admins and when everything else fails call in an Admin to enforce what needs to be enforced. I know it can be harder on some of the other games because you can have up to 60 or more people on the server where as on the CS:S server we have 16. This just means that more of the regulars who do KNOW and ENJOY the rules have to help out more. Because if we all lend a hand then the new players can come up to speed faster and we all get to enjoy our games more and longer.

I would ask how many of you play on different consoles and servers outside of TG and yet still play by the TG principals?

When I hop on Resistance 2 servers on the PS3 I still bring the core principals of TG with me. I try and communicate with my team and some respond and some don't. I will take lead and try and tell people to watch out for whats coming. Once again some people respond and others don't but it still makes "MY" playing experience that much more fun...It also has brought others to come visit our ever growing community.

Same when my friend let me try out COD4 online on his 360. Never played the game before but he was amazed how well I played. I told him it was because...I have been a gamer for YEARS and also that I just do what I learned on TG of how to play.

Sorry for the long winded 2 cents but I love this community...I may not be here 24/7 and may disappear at long stretches at a time due to other commitments but I know one thing for certain when I come back and hop on the TG servers I am going to have fun...

We all have to help keep this community the great place it is without the flaming and bashing. Disagreements are going to exist but if we all step up, TG will continue as always to be a great place to play "GAMES".

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Extinct

Well said shady, I couldn't have said it better myself.

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LpBronco

+rep for Quest Shady

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Forewarned is Forearmed