Firefox meets the truth

ImJustMito · 09-19-2005, 09:35 PM

I'll be the first to admit it, I've never liked Firefox. I used to be a die-hard Netscape guy, I used Netscape 4.79 forever it seemed, well after Netscape 6 first came out and it was so.... ick.... that I was forced to use IE6 simply because Netscape 4 could no longer function as an up-2-date browser.

Since then though, I have learned to apreciate the bennifits of IE6, and have used those to compare to Firefox... and haven't sofar liked what I've seen with Firefox. Through the months I've been having more and more people telling me that Firefox is the future etc... and to them, I give this link...

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=103

**Wyzcrak** · 09-19-2005, 09:39 PM

That's it. I'm going to stop using Firefox.

Zephyr · 09-19-2005, 09:45 PM

Oh crap. *Fires up Maxathon* I guess I'll revert to this instead. Pity really, Firefox was always so nice to me...
-Zephyr

burble · 09-19-2005, 09:46 PM

funny, i've never had a single problem with security in firefox. with IE, i can't go a week without browser hijacks and unwanted files magically finding their way onto my computer, despite no downloading actually taking place, and the presence of 'high' security settings and a firewall.

i'll stick to firefox, thanks.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-19-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burble

i'll stick to firefox, thanks.

What he said.

burble · 09-19-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

That's it. I'm going to stop using Firefox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

What he said.

that schizophrenia causing you problems again?

**RandomGuy** · 09-19-2005, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImJustMito

Since then though, I have learned to apreciate the bennifits[sic] of IE6

those being...?

I'll take firefox's flaws over IE's flaws. I think most savvy people do too.

rs_al · 09-19-2005, 10:38 PM

Yeah... he doesn't link to the vulnerabilities

One vulnerability: Firefox supports international characters in URLs. IE just shows a bunch of boxes and crap.

Another vulnerability: you can't tell what tab a popup window comes from.

Firefox has features, IE looks more like notepad every day.

But despite not having an update in years and years, they rolled out that SP2 crap. The "security" enhancements added for SP2 were so maddening it was the reason I dropped it as my default browser at work. IE generates DHTML code when viewing XML files, but the "security" enhancements BLOCK the code - the code that it just generated itself to view what amounts to a text doc - from running. What's more it only does this for LOCAL files - if it were a remote file (i.e. what a hacker would use), IE would happily execute the script. Throw in the fact that it also blocks PDF files on your computer from opening = trash can (I mean recycling bin).

I'm willing to take a couple features that might "confuse" me over IE trying to hinder my productivity at every step.

(Sorry for the long post, but re: the security features you must understand that it puts me in to a blind rage in which I must curse in earshot of my manager and then jettison IE into space)

Steel_Penguin · 09-19-2005, 11:37 PM

when i use IE now i fell like someone cut off my right arm and gouged one of my eyes out. i love my extensions too much too give up firefox. the only browser i would use instead would be opera.

Nightfire · 09-19-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

What he said.

same here

AzzMan · 09-20-2005, 04:21 PM

This most certainly won't affect me, and I can assume the same for many other FF users.

**Lt.Snow** · 09-20-2005, 09:43 PM

Hell YA!! Down with IE, I need to see a new tab when I press Ctrl+T, I Need extensions upon extensions, I Need that oooso nice popup blocker, and most of all When I Hold Ctrl And Wheel My Mouse Wheel Back I WANT THE WORDS TO GET INFINITELY BIGGER!!!

MY NAME IS DEVIN AND I USE FIREFOX

Zek · 09-20-2005, 09:55 PM

Without any sources for his numbers whatsoever I have a real hard time buying them.

Tell me, beside this guy's testimony, what exactly are the benefits of IE6?

**Wyzcrak** · 09-20-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zek

Tell me, beside this guy's testimony, what exactly are the benefits of IE6?

For one, it puts social distance between you and those dirty Firefox zealots.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-21-2005, 01:23 AM

I'd like a thought-provoking answer to Zek's question. Here's an interesting response to the author of the article Mito referenced. I've bolded the text I found most interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago Roza

It's expectable (not to say obvious) that any given month they'll find more vulnerabilities (and consequently publish more exploits) for a product that's been released 3 years after the other... most IE vulnerabilities have been discovered already (and their exploits made public).

What really matters is how many of those vulnerabilities (which lead to exploits) are there in total, and how many of them are still active, for each product.

Who cares about how many of them are discovered in a given period? If browser A has 500 unpatched vulnerabilities, but none has been reported in 2005, while browser B has 10 total, but all of them were reported in that year, which one is more secure? Isn't that obvious?

As you can read in Wikipedia (and then check the sources, if you don't trust the wiki):
- "As of September 2005, Secunia has reported 4 unpatched vulnerabilities in Firefox (with the most serious one marked "less critical"), versus 19 for Internet Explorer (with the most serious one marked "highly critical")"
- "Another security source, SecurityFocus, reports 2 unpatched vulnerabilities in Firefox 1.0.6, versus 56 unpatched vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer 6 on Microsoft Windows XP SP2"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox#Security

To sum it up: 4.75x less unpatched vulnerabilities according to Secunia, 28x less according to SecurityFocus.

Also, note the difference between vulnerability and exploits, and then re-read the tail end of the above quote's first paragraph. IE's vulnerabilities are largely published? Meaning more people can actually EXPLOIT those vulnerabilities to HARM "me"? Firefox's weaknesses are largely unpublished vulnerabilities for whom exploits haven't so largely been developed?

Also, does it not stand to good reason that more vulnerabilities will be discovered for an open-source product than will be discovered for a closed-source product? If so, doesn't the open-source product, with full exposure and a literal army of developers prepared to remedy that which has been exposed, stand to be patched faster, more often, and with greater review than the closed-source product?

09-19-2005, 09:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
ImJustMito Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 253	Firefox meets the truth I'll be the first to admit it, I've never liked Firefox. I used to be a die-hard Netscape guy, I used Netscape 4.79 forever it seemed, well after Netscape 6 first came out and it was so.... ick.... that I was forced to use IE6 simply because Netscape 4 could no longer function as an up-2-date browser. Since then though, I have learned to apreciate the bennifits of IE6, and have used those to compare to Firefox... and haven't sofar liked what I've seen with Firefox. Through the months I've been having more and more people telling me that Firefox is the future etc... and to them, I give this link... http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=103 __________________ Last edited by ImJustMito; 09-19-2005 at 09:55 PM.

09-19-2005, 09:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,138	Re: Firefox meets the truth That's it. I'm going to stop using Firefox. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-19-2005, 09:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zephyr Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 20 Posts: 1,648	Re: Firefox meets the truth Oh crap. Fires up Maxathon I guess I'll revert to this instead. Pity really, Firefox was always so nice to me... -Zephyr __________________ You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it. You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer. Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline. Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise. We are no clan. We are not a single game. We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals. We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

09-19-2005, 09:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
burble Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 22 Posts: 326	Re: Firefox meets the truth funny, i've never had a single problem with security in firefox. with IE, i can't go a week without browser hijacks and unwanted files magically finding their way onto my computer, despite no downloading actually taking place, and the presence of 'high' security settings and a firewall. i'll stick to firefox, thanks. __________________

09-19-2005, 10:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
rs_al Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 499	Re: Firefox meets the truth Yeah... he doesn't link to the vulnerabilities One vulnerability: Firefox supports international characters in URLs. IE just shows a bunch of boxes and crap. Another vulnerability: you can't tell what tab a popup window comes from. Firefox has features, IE looks more like notepad every day. But despite not having an update in years and years, they rolled out that SP2 crap. The "security" enhancements added for SP2 were so maddening it was the reason I dropped it as my default browser at work. IE generates DHTML code when viewing XML files, but the "security" enhancements BLOCK the code - the code that it just generated itself to view what amounts to a text doc - from running. What's more it only does this for LOCAL files - if it were a remote file (i.e. what a hacker would use), IE would happily execute the script. Throw in the fact that it also blocks PDF files on your computer from opening = trash can (I mean recycling bin). I'm willing to take a couple features that might "confuse" me over IE trying to hinder my productivity at every step. (Sorry for the long post, but re: the security features you must understand that it puts me in to a blind rage in which I must curse in earshot of my manager and then jettison IE into space)

09-19-2005, 11:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
Steel_Penguin Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Florida,USA Age: 20 Posts: 1,970	Re: Firefox meets the truth when i use IE now i fell like someone cut off my right arm and gouged one of my eyes out. i love my extensions too much too give up firefox. the only browser i would use instead would be opera. __________________ _____________________ ---

09-20-2005, 04:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
AzzMan Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Age: 17 Posts: 1,774	Re: Firefox meets the truth This most certainly won't affect me, and I can assume the same for many other FF users.

09-20-2005, 09:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Lt.Snow Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alberta Age: 19 Posts: 101	Re: Firefox meets the truth Hell YA!! Down with IE, I need to see a new tab when I press Ctrl+T, I Need extensions upon extensions, I Need that oooso nice popup blocker, and most of all When I Hold Ctrl And Wheel My Mouse Wheel Back I WANT THE WORDS TO GET INFINITELY BIGGER!!! MY NAME IS DEVIN AND I USE FIREFOX

09-20-2005, 09:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: Firefox meets the truth Without any sources for his numbers whatsoever I have a real hard time buying them. Tell me, beside this guy's testimony, what exactly are the benefits of IE6?

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