New Look - Page 5

**Apophis** · 10-06-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

I like the solution of users having some sort of remedy for implementing their own improvements, even if it's "go to this forum to talk to the guys we've put in charge of home-grown styles/templates".

If there's file access/permissions, or some other security/integration/don't-try-this-at-home bottleneck, can we give a designated group (the members of which are somehow established as qualified) some access to crank out templates and styles for this forum?

If people want to try and crank out designs/templates, they only need go purchase a copy of vBulletin, install it, and then work with the template system to come up with a designs. It's a LOT of work during code updates though, and that's something they would have to be ready for and prepared to drop everything else to get them done/updated.

**Trooper** · 10-06-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I'm not opposed to switching up some of the colors a bit, that's relatively easy. As long as the modifications I'm making are to the CSS values in the database (There is no static css file, it's generated dynamically, along with everything else, from the database) it won't be too bad to update come patch time.

I know some people don't like it, but very few that don't like it have actually defined what they dislike about it or made suggestions for improvement. But most of these people also still have time to play games once in a while. Hell, I hadn't even finished with the template changes from vBulletin 3.6.1 when 3.6.2 came out. I was given the choice to just start all over again on the changes, or finally move to something that required a lot less time.

If i remember correctly the same additude toward the last look was given by mostely the same people. Its different and people will have to get usto it. Its not like we Joined TG just for the wierd colored forums. I mean if this gives apophis more gaming and family time, i dont see how he COULDNT change the forum look. And if this look gives more tools, how about we all wait to see what it looks like in the final stage before you people start bitching about it

**Wyzcrak** · 10-06-2006, 11:00 AM

Oh gross, Trooper. Don't make this personal with talk of "the same people". Having not commented on our new palette, I'll say no one's bitching about the maintenance simplification. That's what saves Apophis significant time (which I'm sure everyone's thrilled about, given the boost Apophis' presence on the other team gives anyone's KD!), not presenting a gray background color over a tan one.

We're talking browser rendering of background and foreground colors and image URLs here. 2003 stuff. Stuff that sufficiently-savvy webinauts (laff. surely that word exists.) reasonably expect to control for themselves in 2007.

It's apparent after speaking with Apophis that vBulletin too-tightly bundles the appearance of UI objects with their functionality. I'm amazed, really. For being so impressed by the model by which they allow their license owners to extend the functional experience (which, of course, should require server access), I'm very disappointed that the vBulletin application designers make it so difficult to customize the aesthetic experience (which, today, should NOT require server access) of whatever functionality the server-side configuration dictates.

I'm all for the server-residing resources defining default simple aesthetics values, but they should do so with today's methodologies which facilitate client-side personalization of those values. A template should define that there's a space, to the left of a thread title, that I can click on to go to the oldest unread post in the thread. And a template should define a default image URL to display in that space. I just want it to render that space to my browser using contemporary conventions which allow an end-user to personalize it. I want to change its color. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread changing its size. Changing when the space appears at all might justify server-side modifications. That's functionality. Easily changing its aesthetics properties if and when it displays shouldn't. That's pure cosmetics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the good folks at vBulletin move in that direction, and maybe even create motivation for third-party template publishers to do the same, with future releases. I realize that slapping a customized style definition on a dymanic web application is harder than sprucing up your Geocities homepage, but I'm pretty well accustomed to being impressed with the innovations vBulletin include (and/or create) in their releases, and them improving on their client-side aesthetics customization options would certainly impress me.

Wolfseven · 10-06-2006, 11:08 AM

I agree if MSN can do it and Yahoo can do it we should be able to control our own web viewing personal page. In theory if you have to sign in, then you have a footprint into the system and should be able to change your viewing option not hindering anyone else’s view...

**Trooper** · 10-06-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

Oh gross, Trooper. Don't make this personal with talk of "the same people". Having not commented on our new palette, I'll say no one's bitching about the maintenance simplification. That's what saves Apophis significant time (which I'm sure everyone's thrilled about, given the boost Apophis' presence on the other team gives anyone's KD!), not presenting a gray background color over a tan one.

If you arent complianing then dont take it personal. I was just pointing out lets wait for a finished product, with all the bells and whistles before people start complaining about this weird color choice. You cant tell me this doesnt look more professional then say planetbattlefield or a clan site.

**Pokerface** · 10-06-2006, 11:39 AM

http://juicystudio.com/services/colourcontrast.php

Quote:

The difference in brightness between the two colours is sufficient. The threshold is 125, and the result of the foreground and background colours is 163.

The difference in colour between the two colours is not sufficient. The threshold is 500, and the result of the foreground and background colours is 495. Whilst the colour difference doesn't comply with the W3C specified range, it does comply with the range used by Hewlett Packard. Hewlett Packard recommends a colour difference limit of 400.

EDIT: Before I get accused of not suggesting something, allow me to say that I think the color contrast needs to be boosted. W3C may say 500 (and we're at 495) but 500 is still hard on the eyes. I'm not seeking black on white or anything, but the gray is too dark for confortable reading.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-06-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

If you arent complianing then dont take it personal.

I'm not taking it "personal."

My offense is taken from your using these forums to publicly (and arguably unqualifiedly) making vague and sweeping claims that "the same people" are "bitching", as it just creates drama. It puts the focus on the very person as much as the act, and, in this public venue, that's more harmful than it is helpful, regardless of where you place *me* in all of that.

**CingularDuality** · 10-06-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I know some people don't like it, but very few that don't like it have actually defined what they dislike about it or made suggestions for improvement.

I don't care much for the yellow logo, but I don't mind the overall appearance of the new colors. My problem is with the contrast of the text on the background, it really makes my eyes hurt.

**Pokerface** · 10-06-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

I don't care much for the yellow logo, but I don't mind the overall appearance of the new colors. My problem is with the contrast of the text on the background, it really makes my eyes hurt.

Seconded there.

The user bars could probably use an overhaul to match the new scheme as well, but that's an icing-on-the-cake matter.

**Apophis** · 10-06-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Seconded there.

The user bars could probably use an overhaul to match the new scheme as well, but that's an icing-on-the-cake matter.

I'm not too keen on the yellow/gold logo either. I'm going to play with that a little bit this weekend.

The user bars will also end up getting replaced.

**Wimpinator** · 10-06-2006, 01:31 PM

Hmm I just have a "feature request". It would be nice to have a "Games" section in the FAQ that has links to all of the Server rules and SOP's.

perry · 10-06-2006, 01:35 PM

I'm willing to help where I can, what needs help? I'm not good at any one particular thing, but I know how to do small amounts of lots of different things.

**Apophis** · 10-06-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wimpinator

Hmm I just have a "feature request". It would be nice to have a "Games" section in the FAQ that has links to all of the Server rules and SOP's.

Asch and I have been working on different concepts in navigation. In the end, we're going to do you one better than what you ask. I think you'll be pleased.

**Apophis** · 10-06-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perry

I'm willing to help where I can, what needs help? I'm not good at any one particular thing, but I know how to do small amounts of lots of different things.

Well, all the usergroup tags need to get re-done to fit in with the new site. Is that up your alley? Where's Xink when you need him!

**Wimpinator** · 10-06-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

Asch and I have been working on different concepts in navigation. In the end, we're going to do you one better than what you ask. I think you'll be pleased.

Excellent!

10-06-2006, 11:00 AM	#63 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,138	Re: New Look Oh gross, Trooper. Don't make this personal with talk of "the same people". Having not commented on our new palette, I'll say no one's bitching about the maintenance simplification. That's what saves Apophis significant time (which I'm sure everyone's thrilled about, given the boost Apophis' presence on the other team gives anyone's KD!), not presenting a gray background color over a tan one. We're talking browser rendering of background and foreground colors and image URLs here. 2003 stuff. Stuff that sufficiently-savvy webinauts (laff. surely that word exists.) reasonably expect to control for themselves in 2007. It's apparent after speaking with Apophis that vBulletin too-tightly bundles the appearance of UI objects with their functionality. I'm amazed, really. For being so impressed by the model by which they allow their license owners to extend the functional experience (which, of course, should require server access), I'm very disappointed that the vBulletin application designers make it so difficult to customize the aesthetic experience (which, today, should NOT require server access) of whatever functionality the server-side configuration dictates. I'm all for the server-residing resources defining default simple aesthetics values, but they should do so with today's methodologies which facilitate client-side personalization of those values. A template should define that there's a space, to the left of a thread title, that I can click on to go to the oldest unread post in the thread. And a template should define a default image URL to display in that space. I just want it to render that space to my browser using contemporary conventions which allow an end-user to personalize it. I want to change its color. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread changing its size. Changing when the space appears at all might justify server-side modifications. That's functionality. Easily changing its aesthetics properties if and when it displays shouldn't. That's pure cosmetics. I wouldn't be surprised if the good folks at vBulletin move in that direction, and maybe even create motivation for third-party template publishers to do the same, with future releases. I realize that slapping a customized style definition on a dymanic web application is harder than sprucing up your Geocities homepage, but I'm pretty well accustomed to being impressed with the innovations vBulletin include (and/or create) in their releases, and them improving on their client-side aesthetics customization options would certainly impress me. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-06-2006, 11:08 AM	#64 (permalink)
Wolfseven Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 162	Re: New Look I agree if MSN can do it and Yahoo can do it we should be able to control our own web viewing personal page. In theory if you have to sign in, then you have a footprint into the system and should be able to change your viewing option not hindering anyone else’s view...

10-06-2006, 01:31 PM	#71 (permalink)
Wimpinator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: United states, TN Age: 35 Posts: 2,815	Re: New Look Hmm I just have a "feature request". It would be nice to have a "Games" section in the FAQ that has links to all of the Server rules and SOP's. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Wimpinator [TGU Staff] BF2 Rules and SOP's\|Teamspeak information\|TG on IRC

10-06-2006, 01:35 PM	#72 (permalink)
perry Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,494	Re: New Look I'm willing to help where I can, what needs help? I'm not good at any one particular thing, but I know how to do small amounts of lots of different things. __________________ Battlefield Admin(BF2 Rules) (BF2142 Rules) [volun2][medic][defense3][eng2][support] [sg-c1][gchq-c1][tog-c1][ma-c1][taw-c1][tg-c2] Support TG \| Write for TacticalWiki \| BF2 Sig. Generator \| TS Help

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